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Thread: Hammer K3 Winner question

  1. #1

    Hammer K3 Winner question

    Is anyone using this saw in a non hobby environment, like 1-3 man shop if so how is it holding up?
    Does it hold its settings? accurate? specifically looking at the 79x48 or 31.



    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    I went out on a service call to a guy who had one in a one man shop making kitchen cabinets.

    Performed PM on the machine for him, he had owned it for 2 or 3 years at that time, was happy with it...........Rod.

  3. #3
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    It's certainly not a "heavy duty" cycle type machine, but for a very small shop that's using it for cost effective utility, it should be fine. It sounds like you're most interested in accurate cross cutting, given the short wagon specification, and in that respect, it should perform well. I'm not experienced with the Hammer, but in general, these Euro tools are pretty well built.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  4. #4
    Really looking to use it light, I really only work in my shop 0-20hrs a week - in the winter 0-10 because I ski 1-3 days a week. My issue is that I am an ex professional (in a different field now) and have experienced for the most part all industrial machines, when I had my business I had a 10' SCMI and have used Martins, Altendorfs... so its hard for me to imagine even using Hammer level machines but I am in reality mode and can't justify the expense of anything more but I also don't want to get a machine that won't hold settings, cut well ecetra.. I get that the machine will need periodic adjustments, but only working in the shop an avg of 2-3 hours I want to be able to turn it on and go

    Crosscut,slide and carriage is a big part of what I am looking for along with angles and dado head for tenons. I am trying to stick to mid-sized furniture pieces as that's what I am trained in and am trying to stay away from cabinet jobs which is partly why I think the shorter stroke would work however I would prefer 8', I have 22.75' of room.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
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    Mark, I am a hobby woodworker, but fairly serious and put in about 15-20 hours each week in the shop. I have three Hammer machines (K3, N4400, and A3-31). While these may not be optimum for production-type work (they do not have automated and electronic settings), the quality is far above that which I see in many professional shops. For example, note that many pro shops may use a SawStop table saw. A K3 equals this in quality and exceeds it many times over in features.

    What I can say is that these machines have all been ultra reliable. In the years of ownership and use (the first was purchased about 8 years ago) I have not needed to make an adjustment. The K3 has been around 20 months now, and it is switch on and go.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Last edited by Derek Cohen; 02-28-2019 at 4:49 AM.

  6. #6
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    Do you have three phase power? If you are used to industrial machines, have you thought of used industrial? Sliding saws in three phase are cheap in comparison to much lighter new. I have less $$ in my SCMI SI16 than a new Hammer and wouldn't trade. Dave

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by David Kumm View Post
    Do you have three phase power? If you are used to industrial machines, have you thought of used industrial? Sliding saws in three phase are cheap in comparison to much lighter new. I have less $$ in my SCMI SI16 than a new Hammer and wouldn't trade. Dave
    Do not have 3p, would have to use a converter. Have thought about used but am a little cautious because I don't want to end up with a machine rebuild project, there is a sweet Martin on ex-factory right now that looks pretty safe.

    I currently have a new Felder AD941 that is going to be replaced under warranty (the whole reason for this post), and I would have the option of swapping it out for 3p, or to downgrade to the Hammer jp41 and a k3 for about the same money. I think the JP41 would be ok for a few years if not longer but I think I need to be at 700series at a min. I also think it would be easier to sell the hammer jp and upgrade down the road if needed.

    Not opposed to spending 20k-25k for the ad941 and a saw but I would need to wait another year or two and my current saw still has some value for selling and it is not a slider. Plus really only a hobby now with a few commissions here and there, no doubt I would be happier with industrial level because of the solid feel but seems excessive for what I am doing unless the Hammer is not up to the task.

    One last point is that I am bout 15yrs away from retirement (if i am lucky) so the idea is to buy once and while I am working.


    mark

  8. #8
    Derek, Thanks for the info it's helpful. I haven't even seen the Hammer in person Felder is trying to set me up with someone local so I can check it out.

    mk

  9. #9
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    Mark, I think you will be pleasantly surprised with the quality and capability of the current generation of mid-range machines from Hammer/Felder and SCM/Minimax. They are very capable and well built. They are not as heavy as the industrial machines, but for your stated application, they will do the job with excellence. Just be sure to buy the capabilities and options you want/need...check the specifications carefully. This particularly applies to supporting things like "dado" (in whatever format is appropriate for the given machine), etc....stuff that you really can't add on later.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  10. #10
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    Mark, you are the best judge of what will make you happy and what type of build you need. I'm in the other camp as I can afford new Martin but the bean counter in me would rather have the money in my IMA ( or cars ). Using the high end stuff spoiled me and I started playing with high end used. I don't do a lot of work anymore but I've straight lined 5" hardwood and thrown stock on my old Porter that took two to lift. Heavier castings, better grind, much more solid base ( I think the base is like a good foundation that keeps the settings in place ), and larger motor are important because I like to make passage doors and large stuff. Your type of work will dictate what you need. Single phase Hammer level machines hold value pretty well so the risk is low, but I'll still take my 15-50 year old stuff 15 years from now. You may choose to upgrade, I won't. Dave

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    Mark, I think you will be pleasantly surprised with the quality and capability of the current generation of mid-range machines from Hammer/Felder and SCM/Minimax. They are very capable and well built. They are not as heavy as the industrial machines, but for your stated application, they will do the job with excellence. Just be sure to buy the capabilities and options you want/need...check the specifications carefully. This particularly applies to supporting things like "dado" (in whatever format is appropriate for the given machine), etc....stuff that you really can't add on later.
    Jim, I think you are correct I just need time to wrap my head around it. The Hammer will be better than what I have been using for years. I just sold an MM FS350 that I bought in 96-98, wondering if the Hammer jp is about on par build wise with that machine as I am familiar with it.
    My first slider was a MM as well, I don't remember which one it was but I am pretty sure it would have been entry level as I was only like 22yrs old and had no $$$ so I am thinking that would be on par with the K3. The thing is I never made any adjustments those machines aside from fence squaring and have made a crap load of furniture,kitchens, banks, hospitals had 3-4 employees using them without any issues, could they have been setup better - probably. The saw was sold when I closed the business the FS350 was way out of adjustment but I just figured that out in the past 6 months when I started researching replacements and learned more about tuning machines. Funny thing is that I have been making perfectly fine pieces on that out of tune jointer for years...

    I think I am pretty confident the a3-41 will fit my needs and an upgrade from the mm FS350, the first thing I will do is motorize the table which will be easy as I work in an electrical R&D lab for machines so I have unlimited access to resources to get it done.

    The bigger dilemma is the saw capacity, wont really need the 8' capacity that often and have the track saw for the few occasions (also aware of the workaround on the saw for this) but I will be ripping 8' timber and I don't want to remove the fence for 1-2 cuts or anything that requires 8'.
    a)The other thing about that fence, if you want to put it in the forward position you have to take both claps off and flip them to the other side, not a deal breaker but a hassle (I think this only changes on the Format line)
    b) The K4 looks like it would work and has a great price but it is a 10' which is awesome and would fit but seems too big. the K4 has a heaver chassis and slide (not xroll) than the Hammer and it has the 700series Aggregate, the hammer Aggregate looks way undersized.
    c) The k700 8' is probably were its at but out of budget, could probably make the 6' work but then I am back to Hammer saw capacity issue, also if I am willing to fit the 8' might as well go with the K4.

    Thanks, for the input Mark

  12. #12
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    I work primarily in solid stock for furniture so I wouldn't want less than the 8'6" slide I have with my MM S315WS slider...I don't use the rip fence for "traditional ripping" for anything but narrow stock and even that's less with the Fritz and Franz jig in place. I flatten and thickness materail on my FS350 (newer version than you had) and the straight-line/"edge joint" on my slider wagon followed by parallel ripping use the F&F jig mentioned. Rarely to I have something longer than my slider wagon can handle since I typically knock rough material down after skimming for grain/color before I do my flattening and thicknessing. I cannot accommodate a 10' slider in my shop.

    Given your budget, I think you're considering the right options, but I hope that what I just wrote resonates relative to the slider length. Of course, should I ever move to a smaller space, I'll not give up a sliding saw, so I'd have to opt for the short slider to at least retain the repeatability and precision that I truly appreciate about the tools I use now.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  13. #13
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    Mark, if you rip a lot of 8' stock, either a 9' or a short 4' slider are my choices. My 81" Knapp doesn't get as much use as any of the saws in the pictures. It is a pain to remove and replace the crosscut fence. I can straight line rip on my 10' saw but I'd rather use a traditional saw or one of my short sliders than remove fences.DSCN3624.jpgDSCN3544.jpgDSCN3562.jpg The longer the table the heavier the build you want to hold settings when the travel is extreme. Dave

  14. #14
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark e Kessler View Post
    Is anyone using this saw in a non hobby environment, like 1-3 man shop if so how is it holding up?
    Does it hold its settings? accurate? specifically looking at the 79x48 or 31.



    Thanks!
    I have only seen one Hammer that was in a 3 man shop. It was sitting in the corner with stuff piled on it. I asked the fellow that owned the shop, who for the record was a German Cabinet maker that immigrated to Canada, what was up, he said it worked for a couple of years and the slider bearing got real rough. He didn't have to many good things to say about it. Apparently no warranty from Felder and both the bearings and rails were junk from what I could see. Expensive repair so he replaced it with a more robust german machine. I had a K500S (98" slider) in 2008 and it was based on the Hammer chassis with an X-Roll slider. It would not hold adjustments and be consistent in my daily use one man cabinet and furniture operation. The front fence and outrigger was light duty IMHO. I upgraded to a 2010 K700SP and never have to worry about anything. Take the info for what is worth, and try a Hammer slider and try an X-Roll slider and you will understand immediately the difference in the two systems.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Kee View Post
    ...try a Hammer slider and try an X-Roll slider and you will understand immediately the difference in the two systems.
    The immediate difference I noticed is around $3,500 give or take. I've had a K3 for close to two years, medium use and it's as smooth as day 1. The German-Canadian guy must have spilled too many Labatts on his Hammer (er, saw).
    Last edited by scott vroom; 03-02-2019 at 9:33 PM.
    Scott Vroom

    I started with absolutely nothing. Now, thanks to years of hard work, careful planning, and perseverance, I find I still have most of it left.

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