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Thread: Bandsaw Resaw Fence For Tall Stock - Which Is Better

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Shields View Post
    I'm thinking that each fence type can produce bad cut results due to blade bowing (tall fence) or sloppy feed control (point fence), both resulting in too much wood loss.
    What do you mean blade bowing?
    If your cut is no longer vertically straight, I think the first thing to look at is the pitch on the blade and 2nd would be the tension, rather than the fence.

    How long are your wormy maple boards?

    Matt

  2. #17
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    A tall fence and proper feather boards that also provide taller support will help a lot. But you will not totally eliminate the need to clean the cut surface with your planer or a drum sander...it's the nature of the tool to leave some marking even with the best support. If you have a saw capable of tensioning a quality carbide tipped blade like the TriMaster, you can get darn close with proper material support, but still...some cleaning will be required.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    A tall fence and proper feather boards that also provide taller support will help a lot. But you will not totally eliminate the need to clean the cut surface with your planer or a drum sander...it's the nature of the tool to leave some marking even with the best support. If you have a saw capable of tensioning a quality carbide tipped blade like the TriMaster, you can get darn close with proper material support, but still...some cleaning will be required.
    Jim
    Yeah, even with my TriMaster I still have to run the material through a drum sander. It's good, but not "off the saw, finish ready" good.

    Have you had a chance to look at the feather boards by Bow Products? They're amazing! They now have them as stackable sets for use on taller material on a bandsaw or shaper. They take the simple featherboard to a different level.
    Last edited by Mike Cutler; 02-22-2019 at 2:46 PM.
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  4. #19
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    I use a tall fence and confirm that the face of the fence & blade is square to the table as close as I can get it using an 8" tall precision machinist square. Adjust the table to ensure perpendicularity of the set-up and the cut. I'll joint the reference face & the bottom square, then I'll hold the piece against the fence at the bottom & top of the cut just to keep it from working should it decide to do so, particularly when it's still may not be conditioned for moisture, and after jointing one face. It'll work out after the cut, but at least the thickness will be reasonably uniform & I can then stack the pieces under a weight or joint/plane with enough surplus material.
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Beckett View Post
    I see also that your fence drops down in height after the cut. Similar, it seems, to what Rod is doing.
    It drops down to 6 or 7" so I can set the blade guides lower for narrower stock. The roller feather board presses the stock to the fence just before the blade, over it's full height, whether it's narrow or wide. This insures consistent thickness when cutting veneer and you get down to the last couple of slices where the stock may want to cup or twist a little.

    John

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Cutler View Post
    Jim
    Yeah, even with my Trimeter I still have to run the material through a drum sander. It's good, but not "off the saw, finish ready" good.

    Have you had a chance to look at the feather boards by Bow Products? They're amazing! They now have them as stackable sets for use on taller material on a bandsaw or shaper. They take the simple featherboard to a different level.
    I think I know what feather boards you mean...

    I recently helped Brian Holcolmb do some tall cuts on his MM20 with a TriMaster (or similar)...and even with one of us on the infeed and one of us on the outfeed, it was clear we would have been well served with "tall" feather boards for best results. That wouldn't have worked for the particular option we were doing, but for actual res-sawing...yea...it would be golden.
    --

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  7. #22
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    I like your aluminum plate idea better than my plywood fence - I may make one, I have plenty of aluminum around. I'm also glad you pointed out that old thread/review.

    I've been extremely happy with the 18" Rikon. I almost always use 1/2" blades with mine and cut a lot of green wood. I may have to try the TriMaster. I assume it's intended for dry wood, right?

    JKJ


    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Cutler View Post
    Mike
    I have a 6" tall piece of aluminum plate that has been grafted to the stock fence on my Rikon 18". Same bandsaw that John K Jordan has.
    Here is a link with photos of the fence in post #13:
    https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....iew&highlight=

    It's been "as is" for some 16 years now and has always worked just fine. I do not compensate for blade drift. Everything is square to the table.
    I have no idea if the miter slot is square to the blade. Never check, never cared, This saw is only used to resaw and I don't need the miter slot for anything other than feather boards.
    I have a 1" Lennox TriMaster, 2/3 varipitch blade installed, and I can hold consistent thickness of resawn pieces, to within 15 thousandths, when resawing by hand, regardless of height.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by John K Jordan View Post
    I like your aluminum plate idea better than my plywood fence - I may make one, I have plenty of aluminum around. I'm also glad you pointed out that old thread/review.

    I've been extremely happy with the 18" Rikon. I almost always use 1/2" blades with mine and cut a lot of green wood. I may have to try the TriMaster. I assume it's intended for dry wood, right?

    JKJ
    John
    Yes, the saw is only for resawing dried wood. I have a Jet 14" for the other bandsaw type stuff.
    I did mill a green hickory log once! What a mess. I ended up having to basically disassemble the whole machine to clean all of the wet dust and material out of it.
    It was a good learning experience, but not one I would want to repeat.
    I don't remember how I ended up with aluminum plate/fence alteration. I know that I never had a plan. I just made it for whatever project I was working on at the time, from just stuff I had squirrels away, and it worked out really well.
    I think the aluminum was a cut off from a piece we used to fix a trailer loading ramp.
    Last edited by Mike Cutler; 02-22-2019 at 2:55 PM.
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  9. #24
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    John, I wouldn't use a TriMaster for "wet work" at all. In fact, there are some blades that are more optimal for wet wood cutting than others in their geometry including blade thickness from some manufacturers, such as Suffolk.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Cutler View Post
    I did mill a green hickory log once! What a mess. I ended up having to basically disassemble the whole machine to clean all of the wet dust and material out of it.
    It was a good learning experience, but not one I would want to repeat.
    Let me get this straight - was the hickory mess because of using the carbide blade or just from cutting hickory?

    The reason I ask is I cut a LOT of green wood of all types, including hickory, and have never seen a mess inside the machine using any blade I've tried. (But I've never had a carbide blade to try.) Mostly I mill log sections, often sopping wet with water dripping out of the end grain.

    Another reason I ask is I'm teaching another bandsaw class next week on cutting green log sections into turning blanks. I would love to know what might cause problems so I can tell the people.

    Here's an example of what I cut and some turning blanks from one bandsawing session. My usual blade is 1/2" 3tpi Lenox, .025" thickness.

    ambrosia_maple_IMG_20171202_141342_010.jpg bowl_blank_ambrosia_maple.jpg ambrosia_maple_IMG_20171202_175649_933.jpg

    I've heard others say cutting green wood was a problem for them, jamming the guides, clogging the dust pickup, etc, but I can't figure out what we are doing different.

    Maybe my dust collector picks up everything before it gets to the cabinet. I did modify the dust collection a bit. Sometimes there is a teaspoon or so of dust in the cabinet after sawing for a few days. The thing that made the biggest difference was this little box around the lower guides:

    dust_shroud_1_IMG_7603.jpg

    The dust collector is a 5hp ClearVue cyclone, if that makes any difference. I split one 6" duct into three 4-inchers for the bandsaw. One flex duct has a magnet so I can position it on top of the table as needed.

    bandsaw_DC_comp1.jpg

    I'm genuinely perplexed. What differences are between my saw and yours?

    JKJ

  11. #26
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    The saw is a Laguna LT14, and the blade is a new 1/2 in x 3 TPI carbon steel. The Kreg fence I'm using is 3" high. I've been able to get repeatable cuts that are the thickness I'm aiming for on this 2 3/4 scrap:
    20190222_153440.jpg

    When I mentioned blade bowing, it is possibly caused by tension in the wood after the cut on a solid fence, pushing the blade to cause a bow in the cut. This is where I believe a curved face or point fence would prevent from happening.

    Going from 2 2/4" to a 6 1/2' scrap, I got a bow, and I don't know why. Since I don't have a lot of experience resawing, I'm guessing a lot here.

    Here is the wormy maple I want to resaw, and I just want to minimize the amount of planing (loss of wood), especially due to a bow in the wood:
    20190222_153451.jpg

    Thanks for all the suggestions....it seems that a taller fence is what most of you are using.

    Thanks,

    Mike
    Last edited by Mike Shields; 02-22-2019 at 6:41 PM.

  12. #27
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    John

    I doubt there is any difference. Although I do find that plastic box enclosure under your table interesting. I do not have that, nor ever have???
    That hickory log was about 7' long, and probably about 14" diameter. It was heavy!!!!
    I was using a Lennox Bi- metal blade,probably 3 tpi.
    I was getting these long strands like angel hair pasta, and there was this white sticky substance that formed on the face of material after I cut it. It was close to latex paint on feel.Lots of moisture too.
    My dust collection is inadequate for this saw, no doubts there.
    I've never crosscut with my Rikon, or cut a bowl blank. Strictly resaw only.
    I've liked this bandsaw from the time I first started using it. I've done some fairly decent work with it through the years.
    One interesting thing about that log isthat the boards I cut that day were just tossed up into the rafters of the garage. some 10-12 years later, they are as flat and true as the moment they came off the saw, and they're still heavy!!!
    Maybe they're really not hickory? They're very white. Not blond, but white, boards.
    Last edited by Mike Cutler; 02-22-2019 at 7:07 PM.

  13. #28
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    blade bowing in the cut

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Shields View Post
    When I mentioned blade bowing, it is possibly caused by tension in the wood after the cut on a solid fence, pushing the blade to cause a bow in the cut.
    Going from 2 2/4" to a 6 1/2' scrap, I got a bow, and I don't know why. Since I don't have a lot of experience resawing, I'm guessing a lot here.
    I battled blade bowing years ago when I first started cutting thick wood (up to 12"). I found out it was due to insufficient tension in the blade. I was using blades that were too wide and too thick for my bandsaw.

    I purchased a bandsaw tension gage (mine is a Starrett) and found the tension I was using was woefully low. In fact, I discovered my saw could not possibly tension some of the blades properly. I had no problems on thinner cuts but on thicker cuts the blade would bow badly. This was on dry wood or wet wood. I don't believe internal stresses in the wood had anything to do with it. In fact, after I got the saw tensioned correctly I cut some dry wood with strong internal reaction stresses with no bowing. If I cut off a slice it might warp after the cutting but no problems during the cut.

    Note that I do not check the tension often. I check it for a new type of blade then note the position of the built-in indicator in the saw. For example, I mostly use 1/2" 3tpi Lenox .025 blades so I checked it once and made a mark and set it to the same mark every time I change the blade.

    If the blade tension is not quite right, I believe a dull blade can "push it over the edge" and cause bowing that wouldn't happen with a sharp blade. Also, I sometimes do a lot of "skimming" cuts to clean up large dry wood, where the blade is often not completely embedded in the wood. This can dull the teeth on one side more than the other. This may also contribute to bowing in an insufficiently tensioned blade.

    Just my two cents. Of all the suggested methods to set tension (flutter, plucking, etc) none of them are always initially accurate except by accident. Perhaps those who swear by their method and say it has worked for years may be lucky, have learned from experience, or might not even be using the saw the same way or with the same blade as others. I don't know.

    I have multiple wood and metal-cutting bandsaws and a Woodmizer sawmill so it was easier for me to justify buying the tension gage. There are cheaper tension gages than the Starrett, in fact there was a used one for sale in Classifieds recently for a very reasonable price. Perhaps a club could buy a tension gage then loan it to members. I've carried mine to others' shops.

    There is also a free way to do the same thing:

    https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....04#post2640804
    http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...33#post2640833

    JKJ

  14. #29
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    I had bowing issues many times with my little 14" Delta with riser when I would cut thick stock. That saw can only put about 12K psi on a 1/2" band, far below what band manufacturers recommend. With my newer, larger saw that easily runs 25K psi I've never had this issue, in any kind of wood. Make a tension meter and measure blade tension for yourself. It's not hard and doesn't cost much. With a little practice you'll get repeatable results, same as with a commercial meter, and then you'll know 1) what the tension is where your saw's tension meter is now set, and 2) whether your saw can put enough tension on the band so that bowing shouldn't be a problem.

    John

  15. #30
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    HIckory, to be or not to be

    Sticky? Maybe another factor - if the tree was cut at a certain time of the year the sap may be an issue. I try to cut in the winter.
    But sap is usually like water unless it is fermented by bacteria.
    Could it be resin, not a feature of hardwoods? Resins are sticky buy not white.

    Was the wood white all the way through the log or did it have a darker heartwood? If no dark heartwood it likely is not hickory.

    Can you tell if it is ring porous or diffuse porous? Hickory is ring porous. Knowing if it is ring or diffuse porous will eliminate half of the candidates.
    Hickory also has large pores and lots of tyloses in the pores (tyloses look like clear crystals plugging the pores).

    Now I'm curious! If you can drop a small piece in the mail in an envelope I'd be glad to examine it under magnification. Wood ID is a hobby of mine since reading Hoadley's book Understanding Wood. All that is needed is a section off the end maybe 1/4" or so thick and 1/2" or so rectangle. I shave the end grain with a razor blade and examine the pore/ring structure. Or do it yourself, section 7 in on this page explains the procedure: https://www.wood-database.com/wood-a...ication-guide/ I use a low-power stereo microscope but a simple hand lens works well. If the wood is too hard to shave soak in water overnight.

    The tough sapwood of hickory/pecan can be very white, although most I've sawn is creamier or light brown. Dogwood is mostly sapwood and can be very white and is as heavy as hickory. The bark is quite distinctive, though and it is distinctly diffuse-porous and almost never gets that big in diameter. Hard maple can be white and some can be heavy, also diffuse porous. Persimmon (american/white ebony) is very heavy and varies widely in color but I do have a little that is quite white. Holly can be paper white but lighter in weight than hickory. This is the pore structure of hickory at 10x magnification:

    hickory.jpg

    But there is a huge natural variation in almost all species, sometimes within the same tree. This page shows some of the variation likely: http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/person...cs/hickory.htm

    I designed the box under the bandsaw table after noticing the amount of dust from the guides sprayed forward onto the floor where I stand. It allows the dust collector to pull the dust carried by the gullets sideways instead of down into the lower cabinet. I experimented first with one made from cardboard which was so effective I used it for years before I finally made the plastic one, see-through is an advantage. I also use zero-clearance table inserts which might minimize strands going below the table, chewing them into digestible fines instead. I don't know.

    bandsaw_DC_IMG_7599.jpg

    Both versions are open in the back and partially open on the left, encouraging horizontal air flow. I use small magnets to hold the box in place.

    JKJ

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Cutler View Post
    John

    I doubt there is any difference. Although I do find that plastic box enclosure under your table interesting. I do not have that, nor ever have???
    That hickory log was about 7' long, and probably about 14" diameter. It was heavy!!!!
    I was using a Lennox Bi- metal blade,probably 3 tpi.
    I was getting these long strands like angel hair pasta, and there was this white sticky substance that formed on the face of material after I cut it. It was close to latex paint on feel.Lots of moisture too.
    My dust collection is inadequate for this saw, no doubts there.
    I've never crosscut with my Rikon, or cut a bowl blank. Strictly resaw only.
    I've liked this bandsaw from the time I first started using it. I've done some fairly decent work with it through the years.
    One interesting thing about that log isthat the boards I cut that day were just tossed up into the rafters of the garage. some 10-12 years later, they are as flat and true as the moment they came off the saw, and they're still heavy!!!
    Maybe they're really not hickory? They're very white. Not blond, but white, boards.
    Last edited by John K Jordan; 02-22-2019 at 9:17 PM.

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