[OP]
Member
I'm in the process of putting together a DC system and came across this video. If you have a DC system and did any web searches before building you've probably seen this video. Has anyone else done this build other than Bert from Grey House Studios? It looks pretty easy to put together and the concept makes sense. Would like to kick around people's thoughts on the pro's and con's of this setup. Thanks!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=8v5079FPCsY
Member
Hi Steve,
I think the Grey House video has inspired a number of HF DC retrofittings including my own recent efforts. I didn't follow the Grey House build exactly - I skipped the Rikon fan blade upgrade and left the HF inlet 5". I did add a Super Dust Deputy and cartridge filter. All in all it was not difficult to do. I think the hardest part is deciding on cartridge filter and how you want to catch the dust that gets past the filter - either with dust pan/bucket/plastic bag. Here's what I ended up ordering to do my retrofit: 5" SDD, 17" steel drum kit, 5" take off and Wynn 13F230NANO flanged filter with 13" filter pan. My shop is a 2 car garage with no ducting. I collect dust from one tool at a time - running a 5" x 15' flexible hose from the SDD to the tool. (The picture shows Rockler's 4" expandable hose which has been replaced with 5".) Does the HF retrofit perform like a 5HP $1800 system? No. Is it an improvement on performance and filtration over the stock HF unit? Yes. So far, I've been happy with it.
DC.jpg
Originally Posted by Steve Kozusko
[OP]
Member
Thanks Michael. It looks good.. Nice and clean.. I didn't know Wynn had a flanged filter. I've been eyeing the 35BA222 with the removable top that I would cut to accept the 6" starter. I emailed Wynn last night to see if that lid is flat. Picture makes it look like it has a dome to it which wouldn't work. I like the filter pan option too but still trying to swallow the cost. I don't really like the plastic bag that Grey House used on his build either. Was leaning towards a Gamma sealed bucket if I can figure out a clean way of attaching it. I plan on running duct work along the basement ceiling. My problem is deciding what size. My longest run will be about 40' with a couple blast gate controlled drops along the way. Figured I need all the air I can get which is why I'm leaning towards the Rikon (currently out of stock till April) and opening up the inlet to 6". Using the SDD 5" would lower the amount of air volume BUT it would increase the sucking pressure. Do you need more air volume or more air pressure for longer runs? My concern with using a 6" is that there wont be enough pressure to suck up chips leaving them rattling in the flex hose. Using a SDD 6" would give me the most air volume but will it be strong enough. Seeing the amount of pressure your system has what do you think? This is my first DC so I have zero experience. Appreciate any help! Thanks
Contributor
Pros:
* Quick, easy, cheap
Cons:
* Less power
As you pointed out, this is a good cheap option for dust control. However, the downside is going to be a loss of power from adding the cyclone. Generally that's going to vary, but you might find that it doesn't hit the air speed necessary to collect all the fine dust that causes problems.
Also I'm not a fan of the Dust Deputy. It's a fine product, but if you're going to go the cheap route, the Super Dust Deputy at $169 or $239 is pretty expensive. You'll get similar results from a Thiemen Baffle, at the cost of a little more build time.
Thien Baffle:
http://www.jpthien.com/cy.htm
Contributor
Andrew, can you elaborate on "loss of power from adding the cyclone"? I saw a video on YouTube where a gentleman had a Thien separator (baffle/container) ahead of the blower/filter cartridge. He the took some readings with it set-up that way, then, he swapped out the Thien separator for a Super Dust Deputy separator and took the same readings. His conclusion was that the SDD set-up was better. What's a boy to do...?
Member
DIY Tyler did one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RAoj4urS-Y
Contributor
Sorry, let me be a bit clearer. In either case, Thien Baffle or Super Dust Deputy you're going to be losing some power from the rated performance of the dust collector without anything impeding the air flow. How much is likely going to vary a bit, but you can get some idea looking at various manufacturer ratings for cyclones and the like.
The Grizzly G0548Z2 single stage 1 1/2 HP is rated at 1300 CFM. It has a similar impeller and motor to the G0443, which is only rated at 1025 CFM, or a ~25% reduction in the amount of power. (Though this might be a bit low, since the G0443 pulls 18.2 amps, vs the 12 amps pulled by the G0548Z2.)
Then you get into the question of how much the filter is impeding the air flow. The Harbor Freight has a very porous bag, which means that once the Wynn filter is added it's performance is going to drop.
I'm also not sure that the HF upgrade is really saving a lot of money over the Grizzly G0548ZP IF the plan is to add on an after market filter. HF is $210 + $220 for the filter, so $100, but you're going to get better build quality with the Grizzly, better suction, and the ability to get replacement parts if there's an issue. It's definitely an improvement over the build if the Rikon fan is included.
EDIT: Actually the Grizzly G0548ZP might be a better comparison, since it's also drawing 9A and 220, with a claimed air flow rating of 1700 CFM, vs the 1025 CFM on the G0443 which has a similarly sized motor, or a 40% loss. Even this is probably not a good comparison, since the Super Dust Deputy is smaller, and likely impedes the air flow even more than the full sized cyclone on the G0443.
Last edited by Andrew More; 03-06-2019 at 3:44 PM.
[OP]
Member
I find it interesting at the same time so confusing. I've read where you should not be so quick to add reducers to your system. The idea is to keep as much air flowing through the system as possible. Tyler is running 4" pvc pipe which was my first plan as well. Then I stepped up to 5" duct pipe since the HF DC inlet is 5" and the SDD XL 5 has a 5" inlet so keep everything consistent and bigger. But then seeing Grey House adding the Rikon and opening up the inlet to 6" and going with the 6" SDD and then 6" piping everything would then be the same size as well just bigger. How many people out there running 6" duct work? I can't believe people buying the Grizzlies and Shop Fox or whatever that come with a 6" port reduce it to 4" duct runs. Or do they?
Member
A 6" pipe system will move twice as much air as a 4" system, and air flow is where DC is at. Do you have just a tiny shop with homeowner machines, and only use it occasionally? If you are going to be in that shop on a regular basis, and have sanders, you need at least a 6" system and a DC that will move enough air to get the fine sanding dust.
Contributor
I've seen people do it on YouTube, so it's definitely done, but it's a bad idea. Even if you reduce at the tool to 4" (very common) you're getting a lot of benefit from the large main run tube. Any reduction in size is going to increase the resistance and decrease air flow. It's going to greatly increase resistence at the bends, by making the curves tighter, and it's going to bring the walls closer together increasing resistence running down the pipes.
Dust collectors excel at moving large volumes of air at "low" pressure, while shop vacs excel at moving smaller amounts of air at much higher pressure. If you look at the DCs, they're generally in the neighborhood of 10" static pressure, with 1000-2000 CFM. A shop vac will run 50" of static pressure at 150-200 CFM. All the air flow is critical to capture the fine dust which is carried on the air.
You can see the dust being taken up in some shots in this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF9XuVv4Ens
This is a perfect shot of that from this video:
https://youtu.be/pF9XuVv4Ens?t=870
To be honest, I also believe that a number of tools also come with dust ports that are too small. While it sometimes makes sense, like a circular saw or chop saw that's most like going to be hooked up to a shop vac, it's a bad idea for a dust collector. Also, all you have to do is look at the T-connector on the Saw Stop over air dust collector to know that dust collection is still not top priority. So shrouds, increasing the size of the port, and collecting as close to the blade as possible are all important.
[OP]
Member
Thanks again for the help. I finally watched the entire video and it's very informative. Some what scary too. I've been running with no DC and when it got cloudy in the room I put a fan in the outside doorway and left the room for a while. So far it hasn't hurt my health...that I know of.... but something I don't every plan on doing again.
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