Chisel sharpening - difficulties

[Bruce Haugen]

This seems to be the back bone of every discussion that follows a sharpening question.

Folks not only tend to stay with what works best for their individual use, many become evangelists for their favorites.

Amazing how sharpening discussions always seems to get in to the range of four pages of posts.

jtk

While that is oh, so true, Jim, an endorsement from a noted woodworker is a valid place to start. With experience, it’s possible to make your own judgment about what suits you best. But where are you supposed to start when you know nothing? In the early 80’s I saw that Tage Frid used a 15 amp Makita router, so I got one. That was about 35 years ago. I still use it on nearly every project.

[Nicholas Lawrence]

I think that is how George came into the conversation. One of the comments could be read to suggest the Pfeil chisels are junk.

Many of us have seen the work George has posted over the years, and if he thought they were good quality, that certainly would mean more to me than a random comment by a random European.

[Simon MacGowen]

.

Many of us have seen the work George has posted over the years, and if he thought they were good quality, that certainly would mean more to me than a random comment by a random European.

This is exactly how tool companies want people to think...if I show a photo or video in which a "celebritiy woodworker or Instagramer" uses my tool, people will buy it. Note that a celebrity Instagramer is not necessarily a highly trained or skilled woodworker these days.

Simon

[Gary Ragatz]

I think that is how George came into the conversation. One of the comments could be read to suggest the Pfeil chisels are junk.

Many of us have seen the work George has posted over the years, and if he thought they were good quality, that certainly would mean more to me than a random comment by a random European.

Of course, if the random European seems to know her way around a wood shop, the comment might carry more weight.

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....28#post2879028

[Simon MacGowen]

While that is oh, so true, Jim, an endorsement from a noted woodworker is a valid place to start. With experience, it’s possible to make your own judgment about what suits you best. But where are you supposed to start when you know nothing? In the early 80’s I saw that Tage Frid used a 15 amp Makita router, so I got one. That was about 35 years ago. I still use it on nearly every project.

That was 35 years ago. In this social media dominant world, I don't care what other "noted woodworkers" say. Many tool companies target "noted woodworkers" and hand them free machines to promote...oops, to use. A review by an unknown woodworker means more to me than an Instagramer or youtuber who has 81,366 followers.

Simon

[Edwin Santos]

Not Derek, and I don't have a dog in this fight, but he has stated he grinds with a water-cooled Tormek with a 10" wheel. That wheel is going to produce a hollow that is just barely hollow at all.



George Wilson likes Pfeil chisels, too.

Indeed.

Telling me James Krenov loved the xxx brand dovetail saw or Sam Maloof used only the yyy brand rasps in his work wouldn't change my mind about those brands if I had used them and formed my opinions on them. I trust my own hands-on experience....

Simon

Simon,
Since you mentioned James Krenov, I thought I'd share the story of the time I met him during a two day lecture he gave in the bench room at College of the Redwoods. It was not super formal, for two days he just hung out with everyone and talked on all manner of subjects directly or indirectly related to his work, the school, woodworking in general. One of the major themes that he went way out of his way to belabor was the recommendation that all woodworkers stop focusing on particular tool brands and models. Certainly there was a clear warning to stay away from tool acquisition syndrome. His argument was that unless you bought something that was quite obviously junk, the other 90% of the tool universe was all decent enough to do good work and the differences between these tools is inconsequential in comparison to the impact of improving your own skills and technique knowledge as a woodworker. So focus on the latter and you will be able to do magic with most any tool. And of course a big part of his focus was design and grain reading, which has nothing to do with tools.

Indeed his own set of chisels was sitting there and I must say they were a Heinz 57 collection of mongrels. I don't think even he knew the brand of many of them. They were all razor sharp though. He didn't know or care too much about sharpening stone brands or types. He showed his own two or three stones, one of which was a Carborundum type and another was an old black Arkansas stone he had since the 1950s. All his chisels and plane irons had a hollow bevel and to avoid overheating, they used a old hand crank grinding wheel at the school which was clamped to a bench! I did not come away from his lecture with a single brand name or model associated with any tool other than my recollection of their massive vintage Oliver band saw and the fact that all their plane irons came from Hock.

Now for the best part - after all the lecturing about letting go of tool fever and brand chasing, he calls a 15 minute break, and what does everyone do? They all start mingling and chatting about nothing other than tool brands and comparing Tormeks, jigs, steel types, this, that and the other.

Edwin

[Simon MacGowen]

Now for the best part - after all the lecturing about letting go of tool fever and brand chasing, he calls a 15 minute break, and what does everyone do? They all start mingling and chatting about nothing other than tool brands and comparing Tormeks, jigs, steel types, this, that and the other.

Edwin

Thanks for sharing your fascinating story, Edwin, and sure lucky you having had the chance to listen to his lecture in person. I have watched his hour-long lecture and read all his books, and indeed there has not been any mention of preference for brands. It is his love of rough lumber and description of how worked with it that drove me to work almost exclusively with rough wood and semi-rough lumber for all my projects.

Simon

[Edwin Santos]

Thanks for sharing your fascinating story, Edwin, and sure lucky you having had the chance to listen to his lecture in person. I have watched his hour-long lecture and read all his books, and indeed there has not been any mention of preference for brands. It is his love of rough lumber and description of how worked with it that drove me to work almost exclusively with rough wood and semi-rough lumber for all my projects.

Simon

Simon,
Well I thought you'd enjoy knowing you're in good company with the opinion you expressed in this thread.

I know we're off topic, but I wish I had had the good sense to go meet Sam Maloof when he was living. It would have been an inspiration for sure.
Many of these legendary woodworkers seem to have been self-made, down to earth people, very accessible. I know a veteran woodworker who, when in design school, became a great admirer of Wendell Castle who by this time had museum exhibitions of his work all around the world. So he musters the nerve to go see him and Castle was so flattered that he invited this (then) 19 year old kid to stay over at his house and sleep on the living room sofa which he did!

[Jessica de Boer]

Many of us have seen the work George has posted over the years, and if he thought they were good quality, that certainly would mean more to me than a random comment by a random European.

That's the problem with recommending tools on a US based forum, isn't it. Someone from the US can throw around names of American wood workers people from Europe have never heard of. This George is totally unknown to me and I suspect most other wood workers from Europe. The fact he likes Pfeil is completely irrelevant to me. The opposite is true as well. If I say Heinrich Werderaner, one of the best furniture makers I know, is a fan of Kirschen tools you'd think : "Who the hell is he and why should I believe him?"

[steven c newman]

Beorm: "Who are you?"
Gandalf: " I am Gandalf, Gandalf the Gray.."
Beorm: "Never heard of him...."

[David Silverson]

The only sharpening I do with a jig is to put a high bevel on a bu plane blade that I hollow grind at 25*. How do you do it otherwise? I have tried and it is difficult.

[Simon MacGowen]

The only sharpening I do with a jig is to put a high bevel on a bu plane blade that I hollow grind at 25*. How do you do it otherwise? I have tried and it is difficult.

Why would a hollow grind make a difference in free hand sharpening (even at a high angle)? The way as seen in Rob Cosman's video should work likewise in a hollow grind. Or are you having difficulties holding and keeping the tool at a high angle while at the same pushing back and forth?

Simon

[David Silverson]

It’s not the hollow grind that is the difficulty. It’s taking a hollow grind of 25* and putting a 50* microbevel on it that is difficult to do freehand.

[Brian Holcombe]

Here I’m sharpening by freehand method

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Ya know Derek, now that you have compromised your fine chisels with a hollow grind, I am happy to swap you for a set of stanleys (cost $9 for the set) with a factory fresh edge. On the plus side, you probably can't accidentally cut yourself with the factory edge! :-)

More seriously, I do appreciate the discourse from everyone. I feel like I learn much from these discussions.

As a side note, I do like build threads as well, they give me ideas (since Derek is prodding Warren to post some pictures).