Chisel sharpening - difficulties

[J. Greg Jones]

It’s all good. I understand that the jig does not work well for everyone. I myself even mentioned earlier that chisels will work much better in the optional narrow (side clamp) attachment. I rarely use mine these days for anything but skewed blades. However, it doesn’t not work for everyone either.

My latest comment was to address a different issue, and that is how the micro-bevel feature works. It does not, as suggested, cant the blade to one side in order to put a skewed micro-bevel on one side of the blade. That would indeed be an egregious design flaw.

[Simon MacGowen]

It's even simpler than that Greg - the blade, chisel, etc. just slips.

The flaw in the design has nothing to do with the roller, cam, wheel or any of the related parts, it's the top clamp that is to blame. This is why others have suggested using sandpaper to hold whatever is being honed more firmly .

Before I took up freehand sharpening, I used the MkI and later the MKII jigs for on and off for 3 or 4 years. I still use the MKII for skew blades or back bevels. I have seen comments about slipping with the MKII though I never experienced it, no even once -- blades or chisels. The skew blades are narrow and shorter than the regular plane blades, still no issues with slipping.

I can only guess that, other than any manufacturing defects, the problem of slipping has a lot to do with user technique or error rather than a design flaw. The design is fine including the clamp, cam and roller, but the jig has its limitations. it is not uncommon that when sharpening (or sawing), many untrained or less experienced woodworkers use a lot of force, instead of letting the stone (or the saw's teeth) do the job. Even, steady finger pressure on the MKII would not cause any slips, and the sharpening won't take longer time than a bull dog approach. The over use of force by woodworkers in handling their tools is evident every time I pick up a plane used by some others, and find the plane's knob is tightened like welded.

Simon

[Phil Gaudio]

conveniunt autem dissentio (sorry, could not find a Latin smiley face)

[Brian Hale]

One issue that hasn't been addressed ( unless i missed it when skipping all the non germane jig bashing comments ) is the importance of even clamping pressure. Both sides need to be tightened with equal pressure or the blade will pivot with the slightest pressure. This has caught me several times and even caused me to set the jig aside for a time. Once realized and accounted for the jig performs Very well.

And i agree, using adhesive backed sandpaper, 220 grit in my case, on the clamp bar helps prevent slippage.

For chisels, particularly narrow ones, the narrow blade attachment can be a big help.

Like most every other jig or machine this jig has a personality and once you get to know it you'll be pleased you bought it. I'll touch up an edge free hand several times, usually 1200 / 8000 diamond stone and strop before re-establishing a flat square edge using the jig. It takes less than a minute to clamp the blade and get to work on a stone and there's no need to clean my hands before getting back to work.

Brian

[Jessica de Boer]

Someone asked how I sharpen. Here's a screenshot from a youtube video (not mine). I hold the blade between my thumb and index finger of my right hand, a bit higher up then this guy. My middle finger, ring finger and pinky support the neck. The grip with my right hand is relaxed, it's just for support. I put pressure on the bevel with my left hand index finger in the middle of the blade and my finger almost touches the stone. It's very easy to lower the angle over time because the jigane is very soft so you want to concentrate the pressure on the hagane. It's very easy to tell with a Japanese chisel where you're putting the pressure because the jigane feels different on a stone. When I primarily feel the jigane hitting the stone I just lift the chisel with my right hand until I can feel most of the pressure is on the hagane. I then lock my right hand in place and all the work is done by my left hand index finger pressing down on the bevel.

[Warren Mickley]

Jessica, I hope you don't lock wrists and arms etc, and sway your whole body like some.

[Jim Koepke]

Jessica, I hope you don't lock wrists and arms etc, and sway your whole body like some.

Isn't that for sharpening gouges? (the Mary May method?)

jtk

[phil harold]

Micro bevel?
would that be a lot smaller than the original poster's picture?

[Jessica de Boer]

Jessica, I hope you don't lock wrists and arms etc, and sway your whole body like some.

No, I do not.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

No, I do not.

I never knew that was a thing until i saw Chris Swartz do it on the Woodwright Shop (TV Show). It was fun to watch. I think that I would fail miserably at it.

I hollow grind using my Tormek and then it is pretty easy for me to firmly and properly place the blade onto the stone.

Jessica, my real question for you.... I assume that you do not hollow grind yet have no problems registering the blade on the stone correctly.

[Jessica de Boer]

Jessica, my real question for you.... I assume that you do not hollow grind yet have no problems registering the blade on the stone correctly.

Hollow grinding is a big nono with Japanese chisels. I have absolutely no problem registering the blade on the stone correctly. But I've been sharpening like this since I was 14 years old. That's 22 years now. I have chisels that have never seen a bench grinder and the angle is still at 30 degrees.

This is a close up photo of the reflection of a straight line on the bevel. As you can see the reflection is also perfectly straight which in turn means the bevel is perfectly flat.

[Prashun Patel]

Op, one thing that I notice with this jig is that it is easy to apply uneven clamping pressure on narrow chisels because there is so much space between the edge and the clamp point. It’s the same as vise tacking.

It is also easier to knock narrow chisels out of square during the sharpening because the area being held is so small compared to the projection length.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Hollow grinding is a big nono with Japanese chisels. I have absolutely no problem registering the blade on the stone correctly. But I've been sharpening like this since I was 14 years old. That's 22 years now. I have chisels that have never seen a bench grinder and the angle is still at 30 degrees.

Makes sense to me. I only own one Japanese Chisel and it is in horrid shape. Not sure if I can bring it back to life or not (it went through two hurricanes and was ignored). I would have dumped it onto my Tormek and run a hollow grind if you had not just stated that this was a big nono. Clearly I have a lot to learn so thanks for that information. Will see if the chisel can be saved. Not sure I am willing to take the time to fix it; and I have fixed some things in very bad shape.

Nice picture, by the way. I am impressed.

I have a lot of difficulty holding exactly where I want it. I excel at many things, but, this particular skill defies me. I really need to find people near me who excel at this and have them evaluate me while I fail at it.

[Derek Cohen]

I would like an explanation why hollow grinding Japanese chisels is a "no-no". I have been hollow grinding cheapish Iyoroi chisels for 20 years without ill effects. I am careful to not let the steel heat up. Much of this time has been using a Tormek. The edge does not chip. I do not see the iron backing reduced in any significant way.

Out of deference to tradition, I hone my Koyamaichi and Kiyohisa chisels with flat bevels.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Brian Holcombe]

I would like an explanation why hollow grinding Japanese chisels is a "no-no". I have been hollow grinding cheapish Iyoroi chisels for 20 years without ill effects. I am careful to not let the steel heat up. Much of this time has been using a Tormek. The edge does not chip. I do not see the iron backing reduced in any significant way.

Out of deference to tradition, I hone my Koyamaichi and Kiyohisa chisels with flat bevels.

Regards from Perth

Derek

It often causes the hard steel to relax away from the iron, bellying the back. If I have to grind a plane iron during setup then I’m often doing a second round of ura-dashi.

It’s rare that I do it, and practically never after they’re fully setup.

It May have no effect on the Iyoroi becuase the iron is not that soft, it’s very noticeable when used with very soft iron.