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Thread: There's nothing wrong with A2

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by J. Greg Jones View Post
    Cosman uses a 1,000 Trend diamond stone, then moves directly to a 16,000 Shapton glass stone. Most, if not all, of his blades/chisels are IBC A2 Cyro. He's done the same routine for several years now (although he used to use a 1,000 Shapton instead of the Trend) and he gets fantastic results.
    And like me, the time he spends on sharpening is what? 2 to 3 minutes from start to finish?

    Simon

  2. #32
    It seems like a lot of the people who regularly use A2 tend to not sharpen the entire bevel, ie. they utilize a micro bevel or hollow grind. On my only plane with A2 irons, I also use micro bevels. My carbon steel irons get a flat bevel.

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Todrin View Post
    It seems like a lot of the people who regularly use A2 tend to not sharpen the entire bevel, ie. they utilize a micro bevel or hollow grind. On my only plane with A2 irons, I also use micro bevels. My carbon steel irons get a flat bevel.
    Everything microbeveled here, except the Japanese pieces.

    Simon

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Simon MacGowen View Post
    Everything microbeveled here, except the Japanese pieces.

    Simon
    Please share your technique for freehand honing blades with a microbevel.
    You may be able to help me save some time.

    Thanks

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Edwin Santos View Post
    Jessica,
    Would you mind sharing details of your sharpening routine? Where do you start and end, and what is your progression of grits? Types of stones?
    Thanks
    I do all my sharpening freehand except when a blade is really out of square. That's when I use a jig but only to quickly get it square again. I normally start on the Atoma 1200 grit diamond plate. Most of the time that's enough to get the edge back into shape. When it needs more work I will start on the Atoma 600. After the Atoma 1200 I progress to a medium hard Aoto. After the Aoto comes an Aizu. I generate a slurry on it because it speeds it up a lot. The nice thing about an Aizu is that it leaves a very small burr. After the Aizu comes my Maruoyama shiro suita. That's where I stop for oire and atsu-nomis. I finish my usu-nomis on a medium hard Nakayama. I use the same method for my PM-V11 plane blades as well. I found it responds very well to natural stones.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edwin Santos View Post
    Please share your technique for freehand honing blades with a microbevel.
    You may be able to help me save some time.

    Thanks
    Not Simon, but I also freehand sharpen on a secondary bevel. I grind a flat primary at 20 degrees and sharpen at about 25 or 30 depending on the tool. I keep the secondary bevel about 1/16" wide or less, if it gets wider I grind it again.

    Anyways the technique is I just hold the blade at the correct angle and move it all around the stone . It's just like sharpening a pocket knife, which everyone used to be able to do, except even easier because there is no curve to contend with. I start with a fine India, then to a soft Arkansas, then finish on a translucent arkansas. Unless there is damage or an awful lot of wear to remove it is 1 or 2 minutes.

    To help you find the angle you can make a wooden block that rests on the stone, with one edge cut so that it rises at a 30 degree angle or whatever you want. Set the blade against the block and raise the angle until it matches the block, try to memorize the position, then remove the block and sharpen. You can recheck yourself with the block as often as you like. After a short while you will get the feel for the angle. I use the blocks still for some tools that need oddball angles.

    The main key is to keep your wrists stable, not necessarily locked, but they should not be moving much. Move more from the shoulders, a little bit at the elbows. Helps if the stone is not too high because that keeps your arms straighter.

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Edwin Santos View Post
    Please share your technique for freehand honing blades with a microbevel.
    You may be able to help me save some time.

    Thanks
    Hi Edwin,

    Similar to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLobikOSftY

    except - 1) back and forth strokes (the way you often see how Japanese woodworkers hone theirs), and not figure 8 movements, or circular strokes as Rob does

    2) three grits, not two - 1000, 4000, 10000 or higher; 1000 and/or 4000 skipped if it is rehoninig the microbevel between uses
    3) no worries about angles except the Japanese ones which have less variations; most are between 30 and 38 degrees (except the high angle blades).

    The first few times of free hand sharpening can be intimating or get you unsatisfying results. But like riding a bike, once you get it,you would not want to waste time setting up a jig.
    .
    Sharpening jigs are used when I need to hone a back bevel or a 1/8" chisel or a skew blade.

    Paul Sellers has a free hand method that is easier to learn and use, but I don't like any round bevel on my tools.

    Simon
    Last edited by Simon MacGowen; 02-20-2019 at 1:26 PM.

  8. #38
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    All this and what I get from it. Sharpen A2 30* or above, Japanese chisels as well. If you want a test.Get yourself a 100x scope. Sharpen an A2, a Japanese, and an O1 chisels of equal size at 30* . Look at the edge. Take your ever popular lump hammer and drive each one to the length of the bevel into the same piece of hard maple. Look at the edges thru your scope. Should have all you need to know
    Jim

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Hazelwood View Post

    I do agree that using a honing guide is undignified
    Let's not forget that David is a teacher, and he has to present a reliable system that newbies can rely on to sharpen their tools. Until one acquires the skill and practice it enough, the training wheel is suitable. As any seasoned woodturners will tell you the same story about sharpening their gouges. I think every method is right depending on the stage of learning, and purpose. Frankly, I don't know what super sharp means or is for; I sharpen and go to work, and keep the edge sharp in between (taking 2 minutes each time?) and produce fine outcome. That's all I need. You people can keep talking about steel, angles, and grit.

    Simon
    Last edited by Simon MacGowen; 02-20-2019 at 1:58 PM.

  10. #40
    Jessica,
    You seem to have failed to understand the sharpening regime which I described. (Incidentally almost exactly the same as Rob Cosman's).

    The bit you have failed to understand is the 2 to3 degree change of angle between the 800 stone and the 15,000 grit Shapton stone.
    I have checked edges under a 40x microscope, and it is clear that no deep scratches are left at the edge.

    You are very blunt and very rude.

    I have been producing exceptionally sharp edges for a great deal longer than you.

    David Charlesworth

  11. #41
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    Having read through recent responses I have to say that the notion of a sharpening guru is quite entertaining. It's rather like dubbing someone a breathing guru. Except for perhaps saws, if putting a decent edge on a woodworking tool is found flummoxing, then one has found the wrong hobby or entered the wrong profession.

    It appears the strategy is to present sharpening as something highly complicated so that it can be subsequently taught, presumably for a fee. It's taken too many fifteen year old boys an odd week or so to learn how to sharpen competently, while they were also learning several other basic if not menial tasks at the same time, for any of this sort of business to hold water.
    Last edited by Charles Guest; 02-20-2019 at 2:40 PM.

  12. #42
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    I normally sharpen my Japanese tools, full bevel then put a tiny microbevel on them at the end after finishing the bevel on the finest stone. This produces an exceptional edge and you take a very similar approach.

    However;

    I went to Kezurou-Kai last year, I decided to take a couple practice shavings prior to running and I created a very tiny nick in my edge about two persons before I was being called. So I did not have time for the full regimen.

    I sharpened my blade going 800 grit to 13000 grit with a tiny micro bevel and wiping the burr off with the 13,000 grit stone. I placed 4th overall in this national level competition with people having traveled from Canada and Japan to participate.
    Last edited by Bruce Page; 02-21-2019 at 11:44 AM.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  13. #43
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    David,

    Thanks for sharing your experience. In my much more limited experience, I have moved toward A2/PMV 11 in roughing planes and O1 in finish planes. I'm particularly fond of a Hock A2 blade in a #5 that has a good camber on it. I don't worry about tracks since I follow with a finishing plane, where I pay more attention to finish.... Fit the type of metal to the purpose of the plane and all that, no?

    As a side note, I have an older LN #4 that I bought used with two blades and am unsure whether they are A2 or O1 (perhaps speaking to my ignorance in such matters or to the minor real-world differences between blade types in the conditions I encounter. I don't know).

    Anyone know how to date LN planes and tell the difference among blades? Mine are unmarked.

    Best,
    Chris
    "You can observe a lot just by watching."
    --Yogi Berra

  14. #44
    This is an article some may have seen before that includes photographs taken on a scanning electron microscope following sharpening on a 320 grit stone followed by a 16000 grit stone.

    scienceofsharp.wordpress.com/2015/07/09/its-too-big-of-a-jump/

  15. #45
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    Christopher,

    I have many LN planes, some unmarked and some with their name. I wouldn't bet the house on it, but I believe the unmarked blades are O1 and the marked (newer) blades are A2. Maybe someone else can definitively confirm.

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