There's nothing wrong with A2

[david charlesworth]

I frequently hear that A2 is difficult to sharpen with a wire edge which hangs on.

My sharpening method is very simple. Get a small wire edge at 30 or 33 degrees .

An Eclipse honing guide is used, with an 800 grit man made Waterstone.

The angle is then raised by about 2-3 degrees

Now 4 gentle strokes will complete the bevel and polish the cutting edge.

This is done on a 15000 Shapton stone. Could just as well be 10,000 or 8,000.

The chisel back is then given 20 or so very short strokes (15 mm) across the stone. (Keeping it flat) The blade edge travels off and onto the stone.

If the wire edge is hanging on after a wipe on a sponge cloth and a dry on a towel, something has gone wrong.

This hardly ever happens.

35 degrees for chopping and 32 for paring, work very well for me in the harder woods that I use.

When I do my planing exercise with students, all six faces of a 20" by 5" board, they frequently need to resharpen before I do. Old Clifton blades seemed to be one of the worst.

I think the preparation of the back and the flatness of the polish stone , dictate whether the wire edge will be correctly honed away (or not).
Best wishes,
David Charlesworth

[Jim Koepke]

A2 is for many a fine steel to use for edged tools. The problem for some is when using shallower angles there can be a tendency to chip.

It could also be that some A2 steels are better than others. This is seen in other steels when the heat treatment may have suffered a variance.

My three LN planes have A2 blades and perform in a satisfactory manner for my needs. Though it doesn't bother me to stop work for a sharpening session as much as it might some folks.

My biggest problem is remembering to touch up all the A2 blades before the freezing weather sets in. There is usually a month or two during the winter when water will not remain liquid in my unheated shop. It was kind of odd last week grinding on a piece of steel and using a large chunk of ice to quench.

jtk

[James Pallas]

It's like chocolate and vanilla to me. Both ice cream both taste good. I don't like chocolate with my apple pie. I don't like chipping at low angles. It's me not the steel.
Jim

[Jessica de Boer]

I've never liked A2 and I never will. I prefer a well forged white steel tool.

As for the sharpening routine described in the first post, you say you're going from an 800 grit stone to a 15000 grit stone. The 800 grit stone leaves a very serrated edge. The 4 following gentle strokes on the 15000 grit stone only gently polish the tips of the serrations. The goal with sharpening, at least my goal, is to get the tip of the edge as close to zero as possible. In other words, make the serrations as small as possible. This makes the edge smooth and long lasting. You can only get there by going through successively higher grits.

[Charles Guest]

32* for paring? This must be a typographical error. If not, thanks for the laugh.

[Tom M King]

To each his/her own. I don't have any trouble sharpening it. I just have trouble liking it.

[Stephen Rosenthal]

Seems to me too many people worry about the tool's steel type than using the tool to get 'er done.

[glenn bradley]

Seems to me too many people worry about the tool's steel type than using the tool to get 'er done.

We all enjoy the craft in different ways. Some folks love to talk about the minutia of metallurgy. sharpening angles, chip breaker positions and the like. Others enjoy organizing and reorganizing their shop. I am guilty of being a bit of a jig-freak. Hopefully somewhere during all this some actual woodworking gets done as well

[Robert Hazelwood]

Yeah I have to agree with the detractors here, based on my experience with two different blades. I've never found it terribly difficult to sharpen, I can even manage to do it with oil stones. But in use it doesn't wear gracefully- it rather quickly develops tiny chips that leave tiny lines in the surface. Usually the edge is actually still sharp in the sense that it will take controllable shavings, and will keep doing so for quite a while after the micro chips develop. So I can see how it might do well in a test where the winner is judged on the greatest linear footage of shavings taken or something. But in the real world I end up stopping to sharpen long before it would stop cutting.

One of the my A2 blades was in a LN #4, and it really hamstrung that tool. I had to sharpen at 35 degrees to get reasonable performance, compared to 30 for everything else. Losing 5 degrees of clearance means it will tolerate less wear before needing sharpening. And even at 35 degrees it would still tend to leave lines (very tiny, but I could see them). Unacceptable in a smoothing plane. I replaced that blade with a Hock O1 which has been excellent, and now that LN #4 is my favorite plane (at least, my favorite metal one).

My other A2 is in a LN 60-1/2. I sharpen this at 25 degrees, and while it does micro chip a little it is somehow less bad than the #4 blade was at 30 degrees. I think the bevel orientation and bedding angle help. And for what I'm doing with a block plane the tiny lines left in the work aren't a big deal, so I have resisted replacing the blade. I would consider it adequate but not impressive- I haven't seen any advantage that would make up for the chipping.

Anyways, the point is that for some reason A2 seems to fail by microchipping instead of gradually by wear. It is a common complaint, even with knife makers and users. It seems to have more benefits for the manufacturer (mainly in remaining flat during heat treatment) than for the user.

[Phil Gaudio]

David: Thanks for sharing your chisel sharpening routine with us. I have also found that A2 holds a nice edge for a decent amount of work. I have compared LN O1 chisels to their A2 chisels, and edge retention is clearly better with the A2, all the while keeping a keen edge. I use 3M micro-finishing film to sharpen, and using the same routine you use, I get excellent results at the angles you suggest with chopping and paring. My favorite paring chisel is a Blue Spruce 1" paring chisel with the long paring handle. A2 steel. It seems to hold an edge forever.
By the way folks: trying to tell David how to sharpen is a little like trying to tell Frank Sinatra how to sing. Keep sharing your knowledge David: many (dare I say the vast majority of us really appreciate your wisdom. Phil

[Prashun Patel]

I'm talking out of school here, but I can only deduce from my own success with A2 that the difference must be for heavy users or those working long enough hours to notice.

Personally, my A2 chisels the A2 blade on my #4 work about as well as my eye and hand can tell. Had I read this thread before I bought a few of these, I probably would have steered clear - but it would not have made a bit of difference to this hobbyist.

I have PMV-11's on a couple other planes, and on 2 other chisels. I just don't see a difference.

This is not to say there is no difference, but I suspect for the *casual user*, it may not be a significant difference. Maybe for some, good is good enough.

[Nicholas Lawrence]

I think my opinions of A2 are colored a little by an expectation bias. I tried a couple of replacement A2 irons. As I recall they cost a little more than an equivalent O1 iron. At the time people were talking about A2 the way they talk about PMV 11 now, and the extra cost sounded like it was worth it.

However, they did not noticeably improve the performance of my Stanley style planes over the stock irons. The edge it took was not any better than what I got from my stock irons, and it did not keep it long enough to make it worth the extra time sharpening it. That was my opinion anyway.

If I had been working with a harbor freight chisel and somebody sent me one in A2, I am sure I would have regard A2 as a miracle material.

I'm talking out of school here, but I can only deduce from my own success with A2 that the difference must be for heavy users or those working long enough hours to notice.

[William Fretwell]

Many years ago I read a scientific review of sharpening methods, complete with electron microscope photographs. There was also an evaluation of loss of sharpness during use. They clearly demonstrated the importance of the step process and reaching an homogenous surface before progressing to the next step.
During use any blade imperfections were the start of progressive degradations. The more perfect the edge starts the longer it lasts.
No real surprises but the pictures brought home how hard it is to achieve perfection.
My own experience with A2 is that it keeps an almost sharp edge for a long time and sharpening takes longer.

[Simon MacGowen]

As for the sharpening routine described in the first post, you say you're going from an 800 grit stone to a 15000 grit stone. The 800 grit stone leaves a very serrated edge. The 4 following gentle strokes on the 15000 grit stone only gently polish the tips of the serrations. .

Rob Cosman starts with 1000 diamond stone then to 12000 (15000?) water stone (shapton?). No one argues about the shavings he produces. By the way, he's a big fan of David's ruler trick, which I don't use because all my blades are dead flat on the back.

A2? Just as good as the O1, pmv11 and Japanese steel I have in my shop. I am a practitioner, not a theorist when it comes to woodworking. Some people insist 25*, 30*, 35*...I don't care...my free hand sharpening angles are never measured.

Simon

[J. Greg Jones]

Rob Cosman starts with 1000 diamond stone then to 12000 (15000?) water stone (shapton?). No one argues about the shavings he produces. By the way, he's a big fan of David's ruler trick, which I don't use because all my blades are dead flat on the back.

Cosman uses a 1,000 Trend diamond stone, then moves directly to a 16,000 Shapton glass stone. Most, if not all, of his blades/chisels are IBC A2 Cyro. He's done the same routine for several years now (although he used to use a 1,000 Shapton instead of the Trend) and he gets fantastic results.