Brown truck drove into my yard today

[John TenEyck]

The Bosch ROS65-VC-6 is $229 to your door with Amazon Prime and $208 for the 5" version. The Festool ETS150/3 is $380, shipping included. You get the Systainer whether you want it or not, so the price is $380 regardless. That's a $150 difference to me.

But the smart money would buy the 5" version for $208 plus a 6" pad for $16 for a total of $226.

John

[Doug Dawson]

I am sure Festool is a great manufacturer and most of their products are top notch with a few exceptions. There is no problem to have and use them.. but I never ever had saw any of them in the job sites either in the US or even in Germany.

It looks a brand for rich hobbyists (there is nothing wrong on that) and a few exclusive fine woodworkers. IMO it is very difficult to justify them based on ROI ( return of investment) as there are very competitive alternatives.

One thing that distinguishes the Festool sanders is the lack of vibration. I can use them all day long without the hand numbness that would result from short periods of sanding with the Bosch sanders that I used to use. That alone is worth the extra cost. I would never go back, I don't care what anyone else thinks.

[Nick Decker]

How is the run down time on the Bosch? One of the things I like about my Festool sanders is that when I shut them off, they stop quickly.

[Greg R Bradley]

The vibration on the Bosch ROS65 6" and the ETS150/3 is about the same. The Bosch is 2mm orbit and the Festool is 3mm. They are similar sanders. I don't find the vibration on the ETS150/5 5mm orbit sander to be that much more than the 3mm so it does seem strange that Bosch chose to limit the orbit to 2mm. The Bosch hangs the motor on rubber bands inside which explains the extra bulk for the power and possibly why they limit the orbit due to less power. Lots of wasted space in that case. I assume the rubber bands will fail at some point so there is a question of how much work it will be to replace them. I have no clue, could be easy.

Festool does not seem to work at making their items seem inexpensive. Including a Systainer and including freight to you and making warranty easy are certainly included in the price. They are making it no cheaper to buy from a discount mail order than to actually deal with a real dealer in person where you hopefully get good advice and good service.

Unused Systainers sell instantly at $60-80 but if you are in a very rural area there could be no local market. Many tools come in Tanos or Sortimo Systainers in Europe, even Bosch, Dewalt, Makita, etc. I find them very useful, particularly the T-Lock which they have used for years now. I think I've paid for about a dozen new empty ones for various uses. It does seem like most brands in Europe are starting to have the option of getting the case or not.

The brake on the Bosch is one of the reasons that you DON'T buy the 5" and then add the 6" pad to "save" money. I think to make the brake work right, you have to buy the 6" and then add the 5" pad if you want. I don't see how that sander works well as a 5" as it's already a bit "tippy" as a 6". Festool's 5" is way smaller overall.

[John TenEyck]

How is the run down time on the Bosch? One of the things I like about my Festool sanders is that when I shut them off, they stop quickly.

I'd guess it takes 5 or 6 seconds for my 6" to stop. I usually wait a couple of seconds and then set it on a foam pad while still holding the handle until it stops. Hasn't bothered me but if you want instant off you would be unhappy.

John

[Nick Decker]

Thanks, John.

[Lloyd McKinlay]

The question becomes where does one buy the sander without a systainer?

This is the kind of crazyness that people come up with.

The equivalent to the Bosch mentioned is the Festool ETS150/3 and they are $360. So $360 less the $60 that a Systainer costs is $300 vs the Bosch at $250 that may or may not include freight. The additional warranty of the Festool seems like it is worth much of the $50 difference.

It actually gets a bit different because the Bosch uses a 2mm eccentric vs the 3mm that the fine version of the Festool uses. That is some of the reason that the Bosch gets the vibration down to ETS150/3 levels. It is up to the buyer to determine if that is too fine. I find the 5mm orbit on the ETS150/5 to be the normal 6" ROS.

The Festool 5" ETS125 is $200.

[Corey Pelton]

This is the kind of crazyness that people come up with.

The equivalent to the Bosch mentioned is the Festool ETS150/3 and they are $360. So $360 less the $60 that a Systainer costs is $300 vs the Bosch at $250 that may or may not include freight. The additional warranty of the Festool seems like it is worth much of the $50 difference.

It actually gets a bit different because the Bosch uses a 2mm eccentric vs the 3mm that the fine version of the Festool uses. That is some of the reason that the Bosch gets the vibration down to ETS150/3 levels. It is up to the buyer to determine if that is too fine. I find the 5mm orbit on the ETS150/5 to be the normal 6" ROS.

The Festool 5" ETS125 is $200.

Being that I was talking about the Rotex and not the ETS sanders, yeah, the price is much higher. I actually bought the Rotex 150.

[Larry Edgerton]

I have lots of Festool tools. All of them have been top performers, and get a ton of use. Yeah, I don't need the systainer for the ROS, but it's always nice to have. I have several 5" sanders, so the need is for the 6". $620 (with systainer) vs $250 is quite a hike though, even if the Festool is the better tool.

If the Bosch performs well, I'd give it a shot.

My Fasteners salesman brought me both to try, Bosch and Festool 6" sanders. I bought the Bosch, and it has had heavy use for about three years now with no issues. The Bosch just felt better to me. I have other Festool sanders, it was not about the money, I just liked it better. FWIW

[John TenEyck]

One thing that distinguishes the Festool sanders is the lack of vibration. I can use them all day long without the hand numbness that would result from short periods of sanding with the Bosch sanders that I used to use. That alone is worth the extra cost. I would never go back, I don't care what anyone else thinks.

Have you ever tried the Bosch ROS65VC? It ain't like the others.


John

[Doug Dawson]

Have you ever tried the Bosch ROS65VC? It ain't like the others.

I watched the video (on the amazon page for the tool.) At only "81.5% dust collection efficiency" the onboard filter is not going to be adequate (at least for me.) You could/should hook it up to a vacuum, but looking at the hole pattern it's not going to be as efficient as my various Festool sanders, particularly when going near the edge of the surface. I think the quoted efficiency also has something to do with that hole pattern, which looks similar to my older Bosch sanders, which were just so-so even when hooked up to the vac.

But it looks like a nice tool, vibration-wise. It's very clever.

[John TenEyck]

I watched the video (on the amazon page for the tool.) At only "81.5% dust collection efficiency" the onboard filter is not going to be adequate (at least for me.) You could/should hook it up to a vacuum, but looking at the hole pattern it's not going to be as efficient as my various Festool sanders, particularly when going near the edge of the surface. I think the quoted efficiency also has something to do with that hole pattern, which looks similar to my older Bosch sanders, which were just so-so even when hooked up to the vac.

But it looks like a nice tool, vibration-wise. It's very clever.

A few years ago FWW did a comparison test on several sanders. The Bosch ROS65VC had the best dust collection efficiency of any sander tested, including Festool, when using the onboard canister. The Festool(s) were better when hooked up to a vacuum. IIRC those tests were run with paper disks. I suspect the efficiencies would increase for all sanders if Abranet or a similar screen type product was used. But if DC efficiency is an over arching priority, Festool would be a better choice.

John

[Doug Dawson]

A few years ago FWW did a comparison test on several sanders. The Bosch ROS65VC had the best dust collection efficiency of any sander tested, including Festool, when using the onboard canister. The Festool(s) were better when hooked up to a vacuum. IIRC those tests were run with paper disks. I suspect the efficiencies would increase for all sanders if Abranet or a similar screen type product was used. But if DC efficiency is an over arching priority, Festool would be a better choice.

The Festools are meant to be run with a vac.

BTW, if the Bosch with the canister is only "81.5% efficient" re dust collection, and it's using a half-micron canister, then that dust is escaping from the sides of the pad.

The (more recent?) test of a broad range of sanders, including the Festool, was a total fiasco due to the use of the wrong sandpaper for the Festools, Abranet as I recall?, which messed with their dust collection setup, which appears to be finely tuned. I couldn't recognize the results against my own experiences (using the real thing.) I no longer have any confidence in FWW's tool reviews (not that I've had all that much, in a long time.)

[John TenEyck]

The Festools are meant to be run with a vac.

BTW, if the Bosch with the canister is only "81.5% efficient" re dust collection, and it's using a half-micron canister, then that dust is escaping from the sides of the pad.

I'm fine with that. It gets enough of the dust to keep the mess down while I'm working. And I'm quite sure I'll die of something other than from exposure to wood dust.

The (more recent?) test of a broad range of sanders, including the Festool, was a total fiasco due to the use of the wrong sandpaper for the Festools, Abranet as I recall?, which messed with their dust collection setup, which appears to be finely tuned. I couldn't recognize the results against my own experiences (using the real thing.) I no longer have any confidence in FWW's tool reviews (not that I've had all that much, in a long time.

I find publication reviews useful in helping winnow the field down to a few options to examine more closely, same as reading user reviews or opinions here. And as you've read above, some folks prefer one color over another for reasons others don't consider important to them.

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[Doug Dawson]

That's fine. I was mainly just commenting that the Festools and Abranet don't play so well together, and one shouldn't expect them to, based on my interpretation of the FWW testing (their unintended consequence.)

The new Bosch seems like a fine tool. Cheers!