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Thread: Computer shopping question

  1. #1
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    Computer shopping question

    I am shopping for a laptop to run my CNC machine. I have narrowed it down to two certified refurbished Dell Latitudes. They both have 8gb of RAM, Windows 10 Pro, a 14 in screen, and all the other good stuff. One is an E5440 with an Intel i7 chip and 320gb of storage. The other is a E5450 with an Intel i5 chip, 1TB of storage, and HD graphics. They both cost about the same. Which one would be the better choice?

  2. #2
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    My first thought is to always go with the faster processor. In this case that is the i7. But If you have to save alot of your CNC designs then the larger 1TB drive will come in handy.

    You could always go with the faster laptop and add external storage later as needed.

    I have no experience with CNC and not much knowledge of them. However I retired last year after 30 years as a software developer. I have always preferred the beefier processors as its harder to upgrade them later (especially in a laptop) and often it impossible to upgrade the processor chip. More/faster hard drives and more RAM are easier to upgrade if you find you need it. Not sure if your CNC software needs the HD graphics or not. But you could check with the CNC or software manufacturer and see what specs they recommend.
    Marshall
    ---------------------------
    A Stickley fan boy.

  3. #3
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    Please clarify what the actual function of the computer will be...if it's just to run the controller software, the specifications "necessary" are going to be more modest than if you plan on doing your designs and toolpathing on the machine, too. And with the latter, I wouldn't want to be restricted to a 14" screen, so either a larger laptop or an external large monitor should be factored in for the creative work. IMHO, of course. The specifications for the computer that runs WinCNC for my CNC machine are quite modest, actually, but I don't really do any major creative work on it...just minor tweeks of things already done in my office on my Mac. (Windows under Parallels on MacOS) Be sure you meet or exceed the specifications for the CNC software you will be using for sure...check with the vendor(s) of those things first.

    One other thing...processors have gotten pretty efficient in recent years and "most people" are not going to notice the difference between an i5 or an i7 the majority of time. What's more important is RAM and having an SSD for storage. Avoid traditional spinning hard drives. This Mid-2012 Macbook Pro I'm using has an i5 and is quite nimble, even for heavy photo editing. Would I prefer an i7? Yes...but that will be on the next machine when I'm forced to upgrade in a year or two because of current OS support dropping off.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post

    One other thing...processors have gotten pretty efficient in recent years and "most people" are not going to notice the difference between an i5 or an i7 the majority of time. What's more important is RAM and having an SSD for storage. Avoid traditional spinning hard drives. This Mid-2012 Macbook Pro I'm using has an i5 and is quite nimble, even for heavy photo editing. Would I prefer an i7? Yes...but that will be on the next machine when I'm forced to upgrade in a year or two because of current OS support dropping off.
    You are correct but that depends somewhat on what most people will be doing. Cruising the internet and doing word processing it probably won't be noticeable by most people. I have a MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Late 2013) and as a developer I went with 1 terabyte of SSD along with 16Gigs of RAM. It is not an off the shelf machine but had to be custom built by Apple. But with my needs I sometimes had large compiles along with multiple VMs running and I can tell a performance difference. I also developed VOIP and speech recognition software while working remotely. My needs were hugely different and the i7 has been a blessing. It is kind of like the whole 1.5hp vs. 3hp vs. 5hp table saw debate.

    My gut feeling is that you feel the difference between the i5 and i7 more on a PC than on a Mac.
    Marshall
    ---------------------------
    A Stickley fan boy.

  5. #5
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    Jim, I'm interested in Parallels. I'd like to be able to run Adobe's CS 6 on Windows 7 with my 2011 Macbook Pro. I use the subscription Creative Cloud version now on the Mac, but I'd rather not have to pay the monthly fee, considering I don't use it often, and I have to pinch pennies these days.

    Is there any downside or compromise in running a program in Parallels, or is it just like running on a PC? Does it have access to the files and desktop as the Mac OS? Is it easy to back and forth between the two?

  6. #6
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    Richard, there it little downside to using Parallels or VMWare Fusion for virtualization of Windows on MacOS outside of if you are working heavy programs on both OS simultaneously. Windows updates do tend to slow things slightly, but there's a warning that pops up about it. If CS6 is the only application you intend to run, however, you have to weigh the benefit vs the cost of the more up-to-date subscription applications for your native OS. Parallels is also a subscription...I'm not sure about VMWare Fusion at this point. VirtualBox is another option but I'm not really familiar with it.
    ----

    Marshall, I'm aware of that and yes, some of us would very much notice things. 38 years in IT and Telecom for me.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  7. #7
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    If you are looking for a computer as machine controller, I do not recommend a laptop. Instead, spend a little less and get and intel nuc type of machine, Small, low power, no moving parts (dust proof). It does not take much computing power to run Mach, or UCCNC or linuxCNC as your machine controller. Get a cheap monitor and a membrane type keyboard (dust proof!) and you are all set. Once it is working, do not connect it to net, set it to update never, no screensaver or energy savings settings enabled.
    Colorado Woodworkers Guild
    Colorado CNC User Group

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    Richard, there it little downside to using Parallels or VMWare Fusion for virtualization of Windows on MacOS outside of if you are working heavy programs on both OS simultaneously. Windows updates do tend to slow things slightly, but there's a warning that pops up about it. If CS6 is the only application you intend to run, however, you have to weigh the benefit vs the cost of the more up-to-date subscription applications for your native OS. Parallels is also a subscription...I'm not sure about VMWare Fusion at this point. VirtualBox is another option but I'm not really familiar with it.
    ----

    Marshall, I'm aware of that and yes, some of us would very much notice things. 38 years in IT and Telecom for me.
    Since retiring I let my Parallels subscription expire. But when I had it, I could run Windows faster in the VM than I could on most laptops. And it sees the Mac OSx partition so files were available to both operating systems. I also have VirtualBox and its not bad. Never tried dual boot option on my Mac.
    Marshall
    ---------------------------
    A Stickley fan boy.

  9. #9
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    Yea, I'm very pleased with the performance with Parallels. The only times I've noticed any slowness is a slight one when Windoz is doing an update or right while I'm shutting down the VM which typically entails writing a standby image out which doesn't surprise me. Otherwise, things "fly" as normal on both sides of the fence, as it were. Windows has also been a lot more reliable under virtualization on my Mac. In a major way. I've been able to completely avoid the "annual rebuild to clean out the trash" that I always had in the hardware environment.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  10. #10
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    I have both Parallels and a Windows bootcamp partition on my MacBook Pro (pretty loaded 2018 model, 6 core i9). It is my main design computer. One drawback is that windows programs under Parallels think they are running on a much less powerful machine (processor and graphics wise). The machine boots so quickly, that I find it is better to just reboot into windows when I am planning on doing anything taxing design wise, that way, the software can make use of the full 32 gigs of ram, and dedicated graphics card, instead of an emulated one. Bootcamp can see folders in my user folder on the Mac side, so I can see all my files from either OS. But for many simpler designs, they work just fine under Parallels. My machine controller is a dedicated windows machine, and I transfer files with a memory stick.
    Colorado Woodworkers Guild
    Colorado CNC User Group

  11. #11
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    This is probably a dumb question, but what are the advantages of running Windows in Parallels vs dual booting on a 2011 Macbook Pro with 8 GB RAM and a 500 GB SSD running High Sierra? Or for that matter running an earlier OSX so I can still use my printer and scanner.

    As an old fart, I really resent having to continually perfectly adequate hardware and software because of OS upgrades. And the subscription thing really irks me, don't need the latest and greatest.

  12. #12
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    Richard, the advantage of virtualization is the ability to use applications in multiple OS at the same time. Dual boot (Bootcamp), while allowing file access, only has one OS available in the moment.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  13. #13
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    I have an older MacBook Pro (mid 2010) 16 inch screen, 8 Mb memory and when I upgraded the HD to a SS drive the difference was night and day. I have Parallels ($60 one time buy) running and I leave the Windows 7 side open most of the time as I switch back and forth, and never see the difference in speed drop. Corel Draw and VCarve Pro run on the Windows side and I have some design programs I like better on the Mac. I have done dual boot computers before and Parallels is the way to go. I used a Crucial solid state drive, 500 Gb for less than $70.

    PS I have two laptops in my shop, both setup to run machines. One is for the laser the other for the CNC router. If you know what your doing laptops work fine for machine control. I never purchase new ones 2 Lenovo's, one MacBook Pro (all off lease) , and a Dell.
    Last edited by Bill George; 02-20-2019 at 9:28 AM.
    Retired Guy- Central Iowa.HVAC/R , Cloudray Galvo Fiber , -Windows 10

  14. #14
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    I know it's not really in line with the OP's original questions, but I find it "comforting" that many of us continue to be able to use our "older" Macs very productively with current or near current OS and are able to run Windows with excellent performance and reliability in a virtual machine. And yea...SSDs kicked things up a notch as storage access became the bottleneck as processors got to where they were even a number of years ago in performance.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  15. #15
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    The E5440, without a doubt.

    You will want to replace the HDD with SSD, anyway, and the i7 is a much better chip.

    It has faster RAM bus, bigger L3 cache, is faster and the chip has more features

    The video is an Nvidia GeForce GT 720M vs an Intel HD

    The battery is 97Wh vs 52Wh.

    The screen and audio is better,
    Homemade 6W 900x500mm diode engraver
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