Shop heat and air, Rochester NY

[John Scarpa]

I have a standard 2 car garage shop in Rochester. Any advice on a heating and air system(s) for it?

[Doug Dawson]

I have a standard 2 car garage shop in Rochester. Any advice on a heating and air system(s) for it?

Minisplit, with a heating option. In Rochester? Seal up the garage doors as best you can. That, and prayer.

[Jim Becker]

MiniSplit...I cannot even describe how pleased I am with my unit. It made working in the shop SO pleasant this year over both the summer and the winter. For the winter, it's been on at 65ºF most of the time and barely runs. I've seen no meaningful increase in our energy usage. Mine is a Daikon.

[John Scarpa]

Jim, thanks for the advice. Is your weather similar to that of the Great Lakes, Rochester, NY. I was thinking of going with a split based upon what I found researching. This forum.

[Carl Beckett]

Agree on the split mini. But be careful when you size it.

There is free software out there to plug in your space and insulation values, and calculate heat loss. (depends on how many outside walls, insulation, windows, doors, etc).

Then consider your coldest temps that you want it to function during. Heat pumps are efficient with relative low temperature differentials, but when it gets close to zero outside the capacity has dropped a lot. So it may not keep up with the heat loss (which increases as the outside temps drop). Some add electrical heat boosters to make up for it when outside temps are low - so you are essentially using electric heat during those times (not cheap!).

I have a split mini in MA and like it. But I have a separate 220v electrical 'garage heater' I turn on when its cold and I want to work there. During the winter months my split mini doesnt keep up (even with the thermostat set at 50), yet the system is running all out. This is because its a little undersized and my insulation isnt as good as I planned for (still a work in progress). But it can still be made comfortable to work there, just see it on the electrical bill in the winter.

Your house furnace is likely over sized and if you can add a zone it is another option and likely more efficient during cold weather. But doesnt give you AC in the summer.

Just some considerations.

[Lee Schierer]

Jim, thanks for the advice. Is your weather similar to that of the Great Lakes, Rochester, NY. I was thinking of going with a split based upon what I found researching. This forum.

Jim lives in south eastern PA. Not nearly as cold as long as Rochester or Erie.

[Wade Lippman]

A lot depends on the construction. My garage stays a reasonable temperature because it is well insulated and about a third next to the house; wouldn't take much to heat/cool it.

[Andrew Seemann]

Look into the energy costs of your options. That will be the biggest expense over the long haul. I'm in MN, and nearly all residential heating here is gas (natural where available or propane), with a few folks using wood. Here gas heating is much cheaper than electric heating, whether resistance heat or heat pump based.

Myself, I have a Reznor unit heater. Gas/propane unit heaters and wood/pellet stoves are about all that is used for heating garages/shops here.

[Jim Becker]

Jim, thanks for the advice. Is your weather similar to that of the Great Lakes, Rochester, NY. I was thinking of going with a split based upon what I found researching. This forum.

Lee is correct that my climate is more temperate than you have up there with "lake effect" and all that, but the better mini-splits work acceptably down to about -5ºF. Specifications matter and the better units do cost a little more. Remember, these are heat pumps. You may need supplemental heat if you want things "toasty" during those extra cold spells. Obviously, you also want a nicely insulated space with minimal air infiltration for best results, too.

[Michael Ray]

John,

I'm in western NY and added heat to my 20' x 20' attached garage 2 years ago. I did 3 upgrades for heat:

1. insulated garage door
2. 45,000 BTU Hot Dawg NG heater
3. added insulation to ceiling above garage

I keep the garage at 50 degrees and when I want to goof around on the weekends I bump the temp to up to around 65 degrees. It has increased my gas bill about $5 a month. The Hot Dawg ran me $1,200 installed. That included a gas line run from my basement through a crawl space to the garage. I wish I would have done it years ago instead of messing around with little ceramic heaters and propane units.

As for cooling during the summer months I just leave the garage door closed and prop door to the house - letting the house AC cool the garage. It's not ideal but for the few times a year temps and humidity in Buffalo requires it... it works. On the hottest days last summer I recorded a temp of 124 degrees in my garage attic space and 74 degrees in the garage work space.

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[Jerome Sidley]

I'm just west of you in the Niagara peninsula of Ontario. I heat my standalone shop with a couple of 1500w electric heaters my costs average around $350.00 for the season, I dod have a window shaker installed for the summer but can't tell you what it costs.

[John Scarpa]

I want to than all for the excellent feedback. I’m now specking out a robust mini split and furing out the existing 2x4s in the exterior walls so i can pump up the r value for the insulation. thanks again to all. I'm an admitted east coast novice.

[Jim Becker]

John, don't forget that the ceiling is where most of the heat loss occurs so if necessary, attend to that, too, while you're doing the insulation dance! That really kicked things up for my in my own shop...R30 in the ceiling and ceiling tiles to, well...seal...it up. (it also reduced sound levels considerably)

[Carl Beckett]

Have done this a few times.

I strongly recommend you (or your installer) do a heat load calculation. It isnt hard, and will give you a starting point on heat loss with different outside temp assumptions. 'Most' household systems are not sized correctly.

This needs to be matched to the amount of heat the system can lift at a given outdoor temp. You have to decide what conditions you want to design for (for me, going below ideal capacity a few times a year is acceptable to me). So its worth looking up historical trends in your area.

The single biggest factor in any heating/AC system is insulation, insulation, insulation. That determines what capacity the system needs. Again by putting your building description into the heat load calculators, you will learn where the key insulation weak points are.

Here is one you can play with yourself: https://www.slantfin.com/slantfin-heat-loss-calculator/

One other consideration: Look at the thermostat controller for the unit you are considering. Make sure it can operate in only heat or only cool mode. Some try to take over and maintain a setting exactly (thinking it is for a house where people are living). This means cycling unnecessarily.

And a big one - look at what the MINIMUM setting is for your thermostat. Again some of them only go down into the high 50's. So if you want to set your shop temp to say, 45, to save energy in the colder months... you cant.

It was mentioned that IF you want heat only, there are more efficient ways (gas or possibly oil in your region). The split mini provides AC as well as heat, but some people even have a gas or oil furnace for heat and then add a mini to provide AC (essentially two systems - but might still be more economical to run because electric heating isnt all that efficient in colder climates).

Michael has a sensible approach.

And again if your house system can expand to add another 'zone', that is a great solution and likely the most efficient for heat. Then just add the new unit for AC purposes.

[Jim Becker]

Carl is correct about minimum temp. My MiniSplit's minimum is 50ºF, but it's so efficient, that I don't worry about that. And honestly, I've left it at 65ºF for the last month and a half 24/7 simply because of things like finishes curing, etc. Not even a noticeable blip on our power bill. (But yea, I have decent insulation for the most part, too)