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Thread: LED Shop Lighting Question - Need quick answer

  1. #1
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    LED Shop Lighting Question - Need quick answer

    I have the electrician this week and next, and need to replace my insufficient fluorescent fixtures with ones that produce far more light. I know this has been discussed before, but my ceiling height is higher than most shops.

    The ceiling height is 15-1/2', so not sure if high bay vs conventional wraparound lights are best.

    Also, my last shop with multiple 4-bulb T-8 fixtures (each producing approximately 40watts x 60 lumens/watt x 4 bulbs or 9600 lumens per fixture). And that was with an 8 foot ceiling.

    Almost every wraparound light fixture I see only produces, at most 5000 lumens. So higher ceilings, and half the light output.

    Is the best approach just to replace the fixtures with 4 bulb fluorescent fixtures and change out the bulbs to LED bulbs? I'm not anxious to have to go up 15-1/2 feet to replace ballasts in the future.

    Any suggestions for specific fixtures / or sources to use? Not finding any great solutions in my hunt.

    Thanks.
    - After I ask a stranger if I can pet their dog and they say yes, I like to respond, "I'll keep that in mind" and walk off
    - It's above my pay grade. Mongo only pawn in game of life.

  2. #2
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    Wraps are made for surface mounting on the ceiling. They are pretty much designed to spread the light since they are usually somewhat low. NOT designed for a typical shop but can be advantageous if you need to spread the light due to a low ceiling and/or need the protection from impact. Probably a good idea in a shop with a ceiling at 8' and likely a really good idea in a basement or something where you may not even have 8'.

    High bays are generally NOT surface mount and need to be hung at least a foot below the ceiling for cooling.

    4' fixtures with LED direct wire give you a lot of flexibility for future improvements. Easy to buy fixtures that are LED ready so just a fixture, wire, and tombstones. There is lots of good info on the lighting forum at garagejournal. Sticky at the top have good info.

    Fluorescent bulbs have the feature of 360 degree light output. Almost all LED have the feature of very narrow light output. So you need to plan according to the characteristics of the light. With low ceilings, LED are a challenge. With high ceilings, LED narrow light output can be used to advantage.

    A quick decision now that it is far too late should leave room for flexibility since you may not be able to plan it out well.

  3. #3
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    I've written about this before - I decided on T5 fluorescent fixtures instead of LED for my shop. Each T5/HO bulb claims 5000 lumens, four bulbs in a fixture. I put nine of these in the shop in zones and with switches to enable just 1/2 the bulbs in each fixture until needed. The light brightness and quality is incredible and I'm very picky. Some of mine are high-bay fixtures 4' fixtures with four 4-ft HO bulbs each, mirrored reflectors. I also installed some 8' T5 fixtures with 4' bulbs. All are mounted on or hanging just below 9' ceilings. They are not especially cheap but to me the light is more important - and funny thing with life, you often get what you pay for in quality.

    Go to Home Depot and look at the light display. They typically have lighted T5 fixtures and LED fixtures so you can see the light. I personally would not retrofit old T8 fixtures with LEDs - although many people do this for the easy change and to pinch pennies there are several problems with this. I think you will be happier in the long run to replace the fixtures with new, whether T5 or LED.

    JKJ

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Lightstone View Post
    I have the electrician this week and next, and need to replace my insufficient fluorescent fixtures with ones that produce far more light. I know this has been discussed before, but my ceiling height is higher than most shops.

    The ceiling height is 15-1/2', so not sure if high bay vs conventional wraparound lights are best.

    Also, my last shop with multiple 4-bulb T-8 fixtures (each producing approximately 40watts x 60 lumens/watt x 4 bulbs or 9600 lumens per fixture). And that was with an 8 foot ceiling.

    Almost every wraparound light fixture I see only produces, at most 5000 lumens. So higher ceilings, and half the light output.

    Is the best approach just to replace the fixtures with 4 bulb fluorescent fixtures and change out the bulbs to LED bulbs? I'm not anxious to have to go up 15-1/2 feet to replace ballasts in the future.

    Any suggestions for specific fixtures / or sources to use? Not finding any great solutions in my hunt.

    Thanks.

  4. #4
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    I have a house full of LED fixtures and negative electric bills (massive solar array), so in theory I'd prefer LED lamps for the energy savings, although that may be a false economy with so much less light output for these fixtures.

    Should I take the high bay approach at only 15-1/2 feet. Most seem to indicate higher ceilings than that.
    - After I ask a stranger if I can pet their dog and they say yes, I like to respond, "I'll keep that in mind" and walk off
    - It's above my pay grade. Mongo only pawn in game of life.

  5. #5
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    At 15', you're nearly "two story"...I'm guessing that high-bay type fixture designs are going to be better. Your situation probably should be addressed by a lighting professional, despite any added cost, to insure you get full coverage and light levels throughout your shop. IMHO.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  6. #6
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    Check out the big ass fans website. They are also into LED lighting & have fixtures for high bay and garage/shop lights. They are not cheap, but they are top quality. They even offer them with high CRI, which for me is very important.

    We recently replaced 45 400W metal halide high bays in a warehouse with 150W LED fixtures with occupancy sensors on each fixture. The difference in lighting levels is literally like twilight vs high noon. And with the occ sensors they are probably using about 15% of the power they used to. Not to mention the reduction in maintenance costs.

  7. #7
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    If you choose LED tubes keep in mind that they are directional, mine shine downward only about 120 degrees. There is no benefit to a reflector in that case, just need to add more tubes.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Lightstone View Post
    Should I take the high bay approach at only 15-1/2 feet. Most seem to indicate higher ceilings than that.
    I'm happy with high bay lights and 9' ceilings. The light spread is good. The brightness is exceptional, especially as the eyes get less sensitive with age. One friend joked that he needs sunglasses when he visits. As mentioned, I run them with only two bulbs in each 4-bulb fixture lighted until I have a task where I would benefit from even more light.

    JKJ

  9. #9
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    Contact your power company to see about rebates for efficient fixtures and free lighting design.
    Bill D

  10. #10
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    I went with some relatively inexpensive Lithonia T8 fixtures from Home Depot. I'll remove the ballasts, and have purchased double ended Direct Wire LED bulbs on Amazon. (90+CRI, at least in theory, 4000K, and massively more lumens than the LED fixtures I looked at (9280 lumens per fixture, instead of 4000 max.) 11 fixtures total, so 102,000 lumens. Basically, don't bother using your telescopes in the Tampa Bay area.

    The fixtures have diffusers, so I'm hoping that the directionality at 15-1/2 feet is a non-issue.

    I'll see in a week if it was a good decision or not.
    - After I ask a stranger if I can pet their dog and they say yes, I like to respond, "I'll keep that in mind" and walk off
    - It's above my pay grade. Mongo only pawn in game of life.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Lightstone View Post
    I went with some relatively inexpensive Lithonia T8 fixtures from Home Depot. I'll remove the ballasts, and have purchased double ended Direct Wire LED bulbs on Amazon. (90+CRI, at least in theory, 4000K, and massively more lumens than the LED fixtures I looked at (9280 lumens per fixture, instead of 4000 max.) 11 fixtures total, so 102,000 lumens. Basically, don't bother using your telescopes in the Tampa Bay area.

    The fixtures have diffusers, so I'm hoping that the directionality at 15-1/2 feet is a non-issue.

    I'll see in a week if it was a good decision or not.
    Good choice. If the hot & neutral both connect to the same end of the tube (all I have seen are this way), make sure you get some non-shunted tombstones cause the ones that come with the fixtures will be shunted. You need 1 per tube.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Pratt View Post
    Good choice. If the hot & neutral both connect to the same end of the tube (all I have seen are this way), make sure you get some non-shunted tombstones cause the ones that come with the fixtures will be shunted. You need 1 per tube.
    What are non-shunted vs shunted tombstones?
    - After I ask a stranger if I can pet their dog and they say yes, I like to respond, "I'll keep that in mind" and walk off
    - It's above my pay grade. Mongo only pawn in game of life.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Lightstone View Post
    What are non-shunted vs shunted tombstones?
    Shunted has both contacts in the socket connected together, but the line voltage LED tubes need to have the hot & neutral connected to the separate terminals of the socket on one end of the fixture. They are not expensive & I've seen that some line voltage LED tubes actually include a non-shunted tombstone for each tube.

  14. #14
    That shunted thing was confusing for me, I called the 800# on the box to get advice from the company selling the led bulbs, then wired up the lights correctly. They work great, not one bad bulb. I did away with the ballasts too, figured why do I need all that heat during summer? The old fluorescent fixtures create a lot of heat, found out how much by replacing the bulbs during hot weather.

  15. #15
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    The OP ordered double ended LEDs so shunted vs non-shunted tombstones becomes irrelevant.

    Best thing to do on a new install is generally just buy LED ready fixtures and bulbs for them. Both should be readily available at a commercial lighting supply at low cost. I think I paid $13 for the last fixtures.

    It sounds like these are going to be surface mounted. On a ceiling at that height in FL, I would be concerned about heat. If these fixtures have wraps, that is going to make it worse. If the shop will be fully air conditioned with air circulation that high, it might be fine. Frosted LED bulbs without wraps will be about perfect at 12-16'. Clear lens could be preferable at the higher end of that. Have to be careful with clear lens at lower heights.

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