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Thread: yellow pine is not my friend?

  1. #1

    yellow pine is not my friend?

    Im building a table for a client who brought me some wood off of the home they are remodeling build originally in the 1850's . It's yellow pine or heart pine and it's been a royal pain in the tushy. every step has been a challenge now that I'm into the finishing phase and I am struggling mightily. I used Watco danish oil for the stain and applied three to four coats not realizing after two I was just adding varnish basically. it sit for about a week and I get ready to apply Polycrylic for the topcoat. I apply about five layers allowing each coat to set up and lightly sand with the synthetic sanding pads and sand lightly between each, I have used a HVlP to apply the finish. the weekend of delivery I notice something that was puzzling so I go to fix it and notice the side was peeling I try to sand but it turned to goo now full on panic has set in and I notice the top is lifting . I could pull the clear off by hand. I then use a stripper and remove the top coat all of it. I try to re sand but it seems to stay gooy the wood that is. i was looking for advise and reached out and was recommended to use shellac I did two coats probably should have read more then the can before applying as it didn't set up either it stayed sticky in some places. I begin to sand it down and it is just gumming up as I sand I waited for five days to start to sand , Now i'm totally lost on what to do it's to be delivered and I can't get the top finished it is staying oily. Has anyone every had this problem where the wood was damaged in some way and took on a lot of oil and wont dry. any Ideas other than a stick of dynamite would be helpful. I've started to re sand the whole top but some places it just seems to be oily.
    I am going to sand and reapply oil and then spray with spar urethane or oil poly . this is a brute of a table as well it's 12ft by 4 ft and has a matching old church pew that I've redone to match it is fine but this table has me losing my salvation. okay let the info commence.

  2. #2
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    The first coat of Watco on the wood should be allowed to cure first before doing anything else. Depending on the wood I always let "danish oil" dry for 24-48 hours after applying the first coat then wiping off. May take longer for porous or soft wood. If it has soaked deeply into softer areas it may take a a week or so.

    I have zero experience in putting poly or something else on top. I wipe-on/wipe-off and allow each of 6-10 coats to cure overnight - that's my finial finish. (I've also never tried it on pine but almost everything else including Eastern Red Cedar.)

    If still goey I'd probably try a card scraper to remove the layer of finish, clean with mineral spirits, then let the stuff on the bottom cure well before sanding.

    JKJ

  3. #3
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    I think you need to stop and have a drink or three and regroup. When you are clear headed, get a can of chemical stripper and thoroughly strip off everything. If you have to do it two or three times to get the wood to feel dry afterwards so be it. Then see what you have. You may need to sand it some or use a card scraper to get it prepped again but the chemical stripper should get it 90% of the way there. If you sand it and it's gumming up from old finish, strip it again.

    Once it's ready I would start by spraying a coat of Sealcoat shellac. If you need to color it I would add some Transtint dye to Sealcoat shellac cut 50% with DNA and spray that as a toner next. Why a toner? Because yellow pine blotches like crazy with most stains, etc. The toner will go on uniformly if you spray it on in a consistent pattern. Two or three light coats is better than one heavy one.

    Once you have the color you want then you can spray your topcoats. FWIW, Polycrylic is OK, but there are far better WB topcoats out there. Look at General Finishes (Enduro Clear Poly) or Target Coatings (EM-2000 or EM-9000).

    Practice on the bottom or scrap. And be sure to finish the bottom, too.

    Good luck,

    John

  4. #4
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    If the material is really heart pine, it isn't going to be easy to finish it with anything. I salvaged some real heart pine from a 19th century school building on our property. Even after ~130 years, it was slightly sticky due to the rosin content. It smelled strongly of turpentine and burned with a dense black smoke. The use I found for it was carving inspirational signs using my CNC router. Finishing furniture out of it would have been hopeless.

    DSC_0443.jpg

    The residue from routing the wood was gummy.

  5. #5
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    Fact! Listen to what Mr. John is sayin'. I'm an ol' scroll sawyer an' work lots of barn wood. Best way to handle the tight yer in is to spray on the recipe Mr. John gave ya with an air gun, then leave it be fer a couple days to cure out.

    If'n ya ain't wrecked the wood by doin' what ya did, strip all that off'n there right down to bare wood. If ya scrape anywhere on it, use a plastic scraper. You're most likely gonna have to do a might bit of sandin' seein's how ya got a mess to look after.

    Personally, if'n it were me, I'd use a belt sander startin' with 150 grit to begin the clean up, and finish out with 220 grit. Remember, you're sandin' pine not oak, so easy does it.

    Once you're surface is good &'n smooth & clean, spray your recipe on the wood and leave it be. you'll know when it's ready to start workin' the next step.
    Sawdust703

  6. #6
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    Did you thoroughly wipe off all the Danish oil after applying? You said it was like adding varnish, but varnish doesn’t usually get wiped off. If it wasn’t wiped off, that’s likely the culprit, especially with polycrylic over top. If you start over, one coat of Danish oil should be enough, two at most. A fan will help it dry too. Then I’d go with an oil based topcoat if they want durability.

  7. #7
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    Tim, do what John has said. He knows what he is talking about and the procedure he outlines is the right one. The coating system he suggests will get the job done much quicker and far better than your original attempt. Cheers

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Art Mann View Post
    If the material is really heart pine, it isn't going to be easy to finish it with anything. I salvaged some real heart pine from a 19th century school building on our property. Even after ~130 years, it was slightly sticky due to the rosin content. It smelled strongly of turpentine and burned with a dense black smoke. The use I found for it was carving inspirational signs using my CNC router. Finishing furniture out of it would have been hopeless.

    DSC_0443.jpg

    The residue from routing the wood was gummy.
    I concur with John.

    Heart pine sap has a "memory", and it will crystallize at approximately 15 degrees lower than the highest temp that it ever experienced. So it tends to stay gummy unless you heat it in a kiln.

    I've been told (but cannot confirm through personal experience) that if you use a solvent to thoroughly clean the surface of heart pine you may be able to dissolve the sap and get a modern sealer to adhere to it. Personally I'd remove the finish and put the project / lumber in a kiln at 160F or so (or build a temporary sterilization chamber from foam board).

    As Jon TE stated, it's difficult to stain heart pine.

    Best of success to you.

  9. #9
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    I don't know that several coats of Danish Oil would ever dry on Heart Pine. It would get soaked up on Yellow Pine, and shouldn't be a problem.

  10. #10
    this is exactly the issue i have been having. some of the wood when cut doesn't make dust it makes a pile of rosin filled fibers, not good this is the reason I went with a oil base finish as some of the wood would hardly take any stain. sadly the top needs to match the pew restore that I have done. Im sanding back down and redoing the top and with one coat of Danish I will then apply a oil base top coat.
    At this point even getting it sanded is a chore due to the wood seems oily in places and rosin filled in others. I will never use this type of wood for a project again it might be the most difficult wood to finish I have ever worked with.
    If I had the time to start again I would do what John TenEyck has suggested. I will experiment with these stains and fishes before another project as two experienced guys have both recommended this type of stain and finish. thanks for your coments

  11. #11
    it was wiped off every time leaving the wood shiny but no standing oil

  12. #12
    John,
    let me pick your brain for a second. I have completely sanding the top down and there are bleeding issues still the old oil is not curing I guess. It has been sanding and left setting for days and still looks spotty. I have never used the dye your referring to so let me catch you up to what i have done so maybe I can avoid a further time delay. Originally i used danish oil then several coats of polycrylic eventually the top got soft and you could literally pull it off in small sheets the size of writing paper. I then stripped it twice, I used paint thinner and a synething pad to scrub the top. I let dry so i thought and applied another coat of oil to get my color back and uniform, I let that sit for a few days then brushed on shellac which i think I put on to heavy as it never really set up it stayed tacky. I have now sanded it all off again but the oil keeps wicking up in some spots at the wood might have absorbed some deeper in places. I need the top to finish out like the pew that I have restored already with the poly and danish why it didn't lift I can't figure. while sanding the wood didn't produce dust but rather a dust like a piece of wood filled with rosin which I think im fighting as well.
    I've been reading where I can put the danish down let dry for a few days then spray a coat of shellac then oil poly as a top coat do you think this will work? I need it to match what is already done if possible .
    Last edited by Tim Paxton; 02-19-2019 at 7:02 PM.

  13. #13
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    Forget the pew, you need to put something reliable on the tabletop. Then refinish the pew to match. The tops do not need to match the rest if they match each other.

  14. #14
    Join Date
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    Tim, if oil is still bleeding out of it after stripping it twice, sanding, and wiping it with Naptha then you must have put a lot of oil on it. My only suggestion is to continue to wipe it with Naptha, liberally, until it's dry everywhere. Sap or rosin pockets are a different matter and not hard to deal with, but you need to try to get rid of the bleeding oil if at all possible. When that's done I still think the best approach is start with a coat or two of Sealcoat shellac. That will seal in any small amount of oil still in the wood and also seal any sap or rosin. There are limits to what shellac can do and there is no absolute guarantee of success but it's the best way I know how to deal with it. Wait a day or two after that's done and see if the top looks good or if it's sticky or blistered. If it's good, then proceed on to add color. You can do that any way you want if you are spraying on the color, but be careful about what the solvent is if you use wiping stains because you don't want to lift up the shellac.

    I know you liked using the Danish Oil to get the color you wanted, but after the problems you've had with it there's no reason to think it will magically work better now. Time for a different approach. It's going to be more challenging to match the color using a new system, but it can almost certainly be done.

    John

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