Anyone have experience with Accoya?

[John TenEyck]

I'm debating using Accoya for an exterior door project, on my own house to be specific. That door faces due North but gets afternoon sun as the porch overhang is not that great to the West. It's not the worst situation, to be sure, but there is some exposure. There will be no storm door. The alternative I'm considering is Sapele, but the data for Accoya looks really good. Construction will be one piece stiles and rails and floating T&G panels.

I'm looking for your experiences using Accoya. Machining, gluing, finishing, the good, the bad, how much you paid for the grades you bought, and would you use it again? Pretty much anything you care to share. Thanks.

John

[Kevin Jenness]

The shop I used to work at started using accoya for painted exterior work 5 or 6 years ago as an alternative to the African "mahoganies". As far as I know the only species available around here (through Rex Lumber) is flatsawn Radiata Pine. All the stuff I have seen is a dull gray, fast-grown with wide rings, rather ugly and not suited for clear finish. It comes flat and stays flat, is knot-free, machines ok, is very thirsty for glue but glues well if you sozzle it. Has a bit of a vinegar tang due to the acetylization. Not sure of pricing, I seem to recall about $6-7/bd ft but assuming it performs as advertised long term it is a good value. No problems in the field that I am aware of, and I have asked, but it hasn't been that long.

[Joe Calhoon]

One of our local suppliers started carrying it a few years ago and I tried 500 feet and built a few doors just to see what it was like. My experience was about the same as Kevin’s. These doors went to project here high in the mountains with bad exposure. I think it has been about 3 or 4 years but no idea how they are holding up. Probably should make a trip up to see. Since then the supplier quit carrying it. It gets real expensive to order it in shipped common carrier.

I network with a few door and window shops around the country using it and most like it. One oddity is all the Accoya I have seen in the US and Canada have dark streaks running through it making it unsuitable for stain grade. By contrast all I have seen in Europe is clear creamy colored. Makes me think we are getting B grade material. We went to an Accoya seminar at a German shop that uses it a couple years ago and the Accoya rep there was baffled about this and didn’t believe me till I showed him pictures. It is widely accepted in Europe now.

You do have to be careful to use stainless fasteners and back prime anywhere non stainless hardware like multipoints are used. The corrosive properties and wondering about long term affects of the fine sawdust are something to consider. You are not suppose to use TB 3 with this but know one east coast shop that does with no issues.

Pictures from my shop

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From a UK shop we visited that was using Accoya.
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Outside the German shop.��

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[John TenEyck]

Thanks Kevin and Joe. Joe, those pictures of Accoya in your shop give me pause; it's pretty ugly compared to the nice linear grain of the stuff in Europe. That's what my expectation is, I'm going to ask for some samples before buying any. I'd like to use a semi transparent finish like Sikkens Cetol so any wild grain would show through. Your comments about corrosive effects on non-stainless fittings is greatly appreciated, too, as I am thinking of using a multi-point lock set.

John

[Kevin Jenness]

John. if you find a source for attractive accoya I'd like to know. Good luck.

[brent stanley]

Here's a bit more material on the history of Accoya over here. There's some mediocre stuff bouncing around the US, and who knows where it ended up. https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com...a-miracle-wood

Upper Canada Forest Products in Canada distributes and sells it out of the Toronto area warehouse, and it's the product produced in the Netherlands. Roughly $10/BF. Sierra is their name in the US: https://www.sierrafp.com/products/lumber/accoya/

B

[John TenEyck]

Thanks Brent. UCFP is only about 50 miles from me over the border. I'm not sure I can bring lumber in from Canada, but it's worth a call to find out.

Kevin, I'll let you know how it turns out.

John

[lowell holmes]

I made my door to replace one that was damaged by splitting. It is a raised panel door with leaded glass panels in the upper portion of the door.
I thought I would share an innovation I came up with for the raised panels. They are double panels. They are 7/8" thick and I put polyethylene sheets between the two panels so the outside panel can expand and shrink from the sun and then cloudy days. The door is several years old and holding up well. I make them using fir lumber.

[Joe Calhoon]

There are several dealers for Accoya, we got ours from National Wood Products. I know some shops buying from Rex Lumber on the east coast.
https://www.accoya.com/where-to-buy/united-states/

Brent, was the Accoya you got from the Canadian dealer good color?

I dug out the samples from the presentation in Germany. A lot of shops there use Accoya for the outside cladding of windows and doors with 3 layer laminated scantlings. This makes a outside surface that holds paint well. With this you also avoid the corrosion of hardware since nothing screws into that layer.

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[brent stanley]

There are several dealers for Accoya, we got ours from National Wood Products. I know some shops buying from Rex Lumber on the east coast.
https://www.accoya.com/where-to-buy/united-states/

Brent, was the Accoya you got from the Canadian dealer good color?

I dug out the samples from the presentation in Germany. A lot of shops there use Accoya for the outside cladding of windows and doors with 3 layer laminated scantlings. This makes a outside surface that holds paint well. With this you also avoid the corrosion of hardware since nothing screws into that layer.

FCB93301-784F-4A9C-AAFC-456E55AC2872.jpg
15683CFD-6D02-4E09-900C-A96EBFA929B5.jpg

I didn't get any in the end Joe. I couldn't justify a $1000 minimum order just to satisfy my curiosity, so I wanted to try and find a few people interested to go in together, but just had too many things on my plate. I'll likely get back to it some time. It seems like it would be a decent way to use mediocre, fast grown softwood from plantations and rapid second growth. Normally that material performs poorly with respect to rot, but if this process could change that, it could be interesting. As I understand it, the raw materials come from New Zealand (it would have to be treated for bugs there first) shipped all the way to the Netherlands, processed, then shipped to North America. No wonder it's so expensive......surely a plant in North America could produce it cheaper......

A neighbour of a client saw a wooden door I made on a historic designated home in town and wants a wooden door for their house with a lot more exposure......maybe it's a opportunity to go buy some and give it a try? Painted both sides so appearance doesn't matter that much within reason.

Did you use a water based finish on any of yours? Just wondering about grain raising etc. Did you do a moisture check from the supplier?

I don't mind trying new stuff with my own wallet within reason, but the minimum is a little steep.

B

[John TenEyck]

Joe, would you recommend doing that same three layer approach with a door, with the Accoya only on the outside? I was thinking of using solid stock, but actually am not keen about having Accoya on the inside so a three layer construction would allow me to use a different species. But the question is "Will that construction be stable.".

John

[Joe Calhoon]

Seems like it would be risky With Sapele as that species moves a lot. I have experience with split species on doors but never with Accoya. Sipo is a lot more stable and that would be my choice for a Mahogany - Accoya door. At that point though I would just go all Sipo Mahogany. I still see Accoya as only paint grade.

I see Munchinger offers split scantlings up to 145mm wide for doors with Accoya-Spruce and Pine. Interesting that they mention the dark streaks in Accoya. So maybe not all clear there either.
https://www.muenchinger-holz.de/file...-accoya-en.pdf

[Joe Calhoon]

I didn't get any in the end Joe. I couldn't justify a $1000 minimum order just to satisfy my curiosity, so I wanted to try and find a few people interested to go in together, but just had too many things on my plate. I'll likely get back to it some time. It seems like it would be a decent way to use mediocre, fast grown softwood from plantations and rapid second growth. Normally that material performs poorly with respect to rot, but if this process could change that, it could be interesting. As I understand it, the raw materials come from New Zealand (it would have to be treated for bugs there first) shipped all the way to the Netherlands, processed, then shipped to North America. No wonder it's so expensive......surely a plant in North America could produce it cheaper......

A neighbour of a client saw a wooden door I made on a historic designated home in town and wants a wooden door for their house with a lot more exposure......maybe it's a opportunity to go buy some and give it a try? Painted both sides so appearance doesn't matter that much within reason.

Did you use a water based finish on any of yours? Just wondering about grain raising etc. Did you do a moisture check from the supplier?

I don't mind trying new stuff with my own wallet within reason, but the minimum is a little steep.

B

These went to 2 jobs, customer was finishing the one in the pictures, paint I think. The others I believe got Sikkins 23 in a gray to match some other parts of the house. Sikkins is one of my least favorite finishes.
It does work well with the German and Italian exterior water base finishes. We made a small sample and it finishes fine. There are procedures with these finishes to counter grain raising.


I would think one of the benefits of Accoya is holding finish well with its low movement.

[brent stanley]

These went to 2 jobs, customer was finishing the one in the pictures, paint I think. The others I believe got Sikkins 23 in a gray to match some other parts of the house. Sikkins is one of my least favorite finishes.
It does work well with the German and Italian exterior water base finishes. We made a small sample and it finishes fine. There are procedures with these finishes to counter grain raising.


I would think one of the benefits of Accoya is holding finish well with its low movement.

I've never really had a problem proactively dealing with grain raising on any water based finishes, I was just wondering if the processing made it more immune to that or not, but it seems not. In my research into the stuff it seemed ideally suited to exterior, painted products with the rot resistance in tandem with the paintability. If someone could make it look nicer, it would be even more appealing....

[Joe Calhoon]

I just used some Accoya I had left to replace some rotted out Ponderosa sills on my retail building. Did one in Sapele also and primed with Sirca water base pigmented. Will get the finish on when it warms up. I probably won’t live long enough to see how they do...