Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 90

Thread: Is Titebond III worth it, and can it be your only wood glue?

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Nagle View Post
    This is when your lifestyle leads to desperation.

    That is wrong on many levels!!!!!!!

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Dawson View Post
    If you get comebacks (or are concerned about them,) why aren't you using hide glue?
    Hide glue? Your kidding me? Other than preservation work why in the world would anyone use hide glue.
    Sometimes I just want to look at pretty pictures,... Thats when I go to the Turners Forum

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    Posts
    5,529
    Blog Entries
    7
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Bolton View Post
    Hide glue? Your kidding me? Other than preservation work why in the world would anyone use hide glue.
    I use it in certainly joinery work.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  4. #64
    What a wonderful exchange of information, experiences, and knowledge. Thank you for all the feedback.

    To be honest I had not really considered the factor of shelf life and that kind of changes the equation regarding what volume to purchase. Comparing only between the 16oz(1/8gal) and the 128oz (1gal) volumes, if you can consume 1 gallon of glue before it goes bad, you would save 50% by buying the 1 gallon jug over buying 8 16oz bottles. (i.e. Titebond III @ Lowes is $29 for 1 gal or $8 for a 16oz bottles). If shelf life is really only one year as some members have experienced, then the deciding factor would be whether or not you consume more than 1/2 gallon (64oz) of glue or more in a year.

    That said, Titebond's website FAQ's lists the their "conservative estimate" for minimum shelf life of Titebond III as two years. They also claim that with proper storage their wood glues can last up to 10 years or longer (Titebond: How to store your wood glue for longer life).

    From the hands on experience of forum members posting in this thread alone, the shelf life appears to have a very larger variation. Perhaps the take away is that each member's storage practices and environments are unique and vary widely. This leads me to believe that it may be well worth the minimal extra effort to pamper bulk buy glues and keep them in a dry & cool area inside the house instead of in the garage or workshop.

    Yesterday I picked up a gallon of Titebond III, but am now strongly considering taking it back and exchanging it for a 16oz bottle and kicking the "bulk buy" can(jug?) down the road a little further. In a couple of months once my workbench is built and I've completed other projects, if I'm running out of glue like there's no tomorrow, and if I'm satisfied with the glue's performance, maybe I'll grab the gallon jug instead.

    -Jon

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Evanston, IL
    Posts
    1,168
    I use glue quickly enough to buy in at least half gallons, but I still buy in pints because the pint bottles work well for application. I've tried glue-bots, but don't find them to lay down as uniform a stripe as the Titebond pint bottles, and they seem to clog more easily. The price difference between pints and gallons isn't enough to make a difference in my world, and if I have to buy the gallon of glue and a glue-bot to apply it, most of my savings are eaten up. (I don't use squeeze mustard, so those bottles are not an option. )

    I used to use Titebond III for walnut and original for maple, but realized that a good tight glueline doesn't really show the color of the glue. Now I use Titebond III for all my PVA glue needs unless I need even more open time, in which case I use Extend.

    I have never had a PVA glue joint failure and the relative strength of the various PVA glues seems almost irrelevant. And no offense intended to those who say Titebond III is not as strong as the other versions, but I choose to believe Franklin's tests over the tests or experience of other users. It just seems like Franklin has a lot riding on the accuracy of their tests in reputation and potential liability. And, since any PVA glue is stronger than the wood it is gluing, how can you test the strength of a wood glue joint once the glue is fully cured? (That's a serious question and I'm sure there must be a way, but I'm having a hard time picturing what it is.)

    With respect to the OP's need to find a glue for pizza peels, what do others recommend for something that will likely face a lot of heat? It sounds like neither PVA nor epoxy is a good choice.

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    Posts
    5,529
    Blog Entries
    7
    John,

    Here is an example from around the house, this is a titebond II panel, I don't remember what I planed the veneer to, but I may well have trimmed them down to .060", it's been too long for me to remember exactly. The wrap is solid wood. The veneer is flat sawn and the finish is shellac. I think it's about 12" wide overall, There are at least two seams and I can't find them.

    This is a humidor I made for myself, grouping it in with another project.

    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    47,699
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Nuckles View Post
    I use glue quickly enough to buy in at least half gallons, but I still buy in pints because the pint bottles work well for application.
    Same here...I have the one I'm using and the next full one in the cabinet. I will say that on the last few bottles, the nozzle closing cap has been a little more prone to pull off when opening the bottle, but it's not causing me an issue.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Deep South
    Posts
    3,677
    Apparently, I don't do the quantity or variety of work that Mark Bolton does, but I have never experienced a failure using Titebond III such as he describes. I have seen creep problems from time to time, but mostly it is the original Titebond, because that is what I used decades ago. I am one of those rare individuals who has actually done failure testing on glue and joinery techniques and with few exceptions, the joint is stronger than necessary and the wood always fails first. I use Titebond III because I only want to stock one glue and I build enough things for exterior application that I think the improved water resistance over TB II is worth it. With regard to epoxy, the joint filling properties are greatly enhanced by adding a thickener like wood flour or silica to the material but I never hear of anyone actually doing that (besides boat builders).

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    WNY
    Posts
    5,573
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Nuckles View Post
    I use glue quickly enough to buy in at least half gallons, but I still buy in pints because the pint bottles work well for application. I've tried glue-bots, but don't find them to lay down as uniform a stripe as the Titebond pint bottles, and they seem to clog more easily. The price difference between pints and gallons isn't enough to make a difference in my world, and if I have to buy the gallon of glue and a glue-bot to apply it, most of my savings are eaten up. (I don't use squeeze mustard, so those bottles are not an option. )

    I used to use Titebond III for walnut and original for maple, but realized that a good tight glueline doesn't really show the color of the glue. Now I use Titebond III for all my PVA glue needs unless I need even more open time, in which case I use Extend.

    I have never had a PVA glue joint failure and the relative strength of the various PVA glues seems almost irrelevant. And no offense intended to those who say Titebond III is not as strong as the other versions, but I choose to believe Franklin's tests over the tests or experience of other users. It just seems like Franklin has a lot riding on the accuracy of their tests in reputation and potential liability. And, since any PVA glue is stronger than the wood it is gluing, how can you test the strength of a wood glue joint once the glue is fully cured? (That's a serious question and I'm sure there must be a way, but I'm having a hard time picturing what it is.)

    With respect to the OP's need to find a glue for pizza peels, what do others recommend for something that will likely face a lot of heat? It sounds like neither PVA nor epoxy is a good choice.



    I've never had a problem with TB III with the peels I've made, but they haven't gone into commercial applications. If I were to make any for commercial use I'd use UF (Plastic Resin Glue).

    John

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by John TenEyck View Post
    [/COLOR]I've never had a problem with TB III with the peels I've made, but they haven't gone into commercial applications.
    As (you and other) pizza makers know, the peel doesn't stay in the oven long enough to get beyond barely warm. The heat capacity (and typical thickness) of the wood accounts for this. The moisture content of the pizza is the bigger issue.

    Just say, If your peel gets hot, you're doing it wrong. Etc. :^)

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by John TenEyck View Post
    [/COLOR]I've never had a problem with TB III with the peels I've made, but they haven't gone into commercial applications. If I were to make any for commercial use I'd use UF (Plastic Resin Glue).

    John
    Same here. Pizza peels see nearly zero heat. A pizza is made on them, slid off in the oven, and then pulled out of the oven with a pi that quickly cools to nothing. The heat issues you are reading about with epoxy and PVA are heat issues that raise the core of the material to temps that soften the glue line. You can take apart nearly ANY PVA joint with heat. A heat gun, and patience, and pretty much any glue joint will come apart. Technically they can also be reassembled if the heat is re-activated.

    The issue that you will find with peels and cutting boards is that TBIII will clearly show failures in those applications that will leave you in a repair/replace situation in a job with a film finish. I could care less if my cutting boards, pizza peels, charcuteries, creep. They are free-beeies, give-a-ways. The issue is when that same problem happens on a more critical job.

    Learn however you wish. TBIII is the only glue I dont have in the shop period.
    Sometimes I just want to look at pretty pictures,... Thats when I go to the Turners Forum

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    WNY
    Posts
    5,573
    Brain, was that your piece in FWW this month? Beautiful piece.

    I glued some 1/16" shop sawn rift sawn WO with Better Bond; 2 hours in the vacuum bag. I came back the next morning and found it like this.



    Well that's not good. I made another with what I thought was exactly the right coverage rate, and left it under vacuum for at least 8 hours. For reference, 1 hour is the claimed minimum requirement.




    OK, problem solved. I turned it into a nice little table to go with the adjacent cabinet.



    In less than a year I got a call. At least two of the seams had begun to curl open; not much, but enough that it was obvious and definitely enough for this extremely critical client to complain. Sorry, I never took a picture of it. The house it's in has AC and the owner is anal beyond all reason so it certainly was not subjected to much abuse. I replaced the top with an identical one but glued with Plastic Resin Glue. 4 years later it's still perfect. I've never used PVA glue again with shop sawn veneer. The only reason I tried switching from PRG to PVA was to get faster throughput through the vacuum bag. When that didn't even turn out to be the case for me I had already gone back to PRG before I got the call of the problem. Like I said, I'm glad you haven't had any problems. I know the stuff works with commercial veneer. I just don't think it's a robust product once you move to shop sawn veneer, which is thicker and is sawn, not creped with a knife.

    John

  13. #73
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    N.E. Ohio
    Posts
    5,481
    And, since any PVA glue is stronger than the wood it is gluing, how can you test the strength of a wood glue joint once the glue is fully cured? (That's a serious question and I'm sure there must be a way, but I'm having a hard time picturing what it is.)
    Easier and far simpler than you think.
    Glue a couple of pieces of wood together - let the glue cure - clamp the pieces in a vice - whomp it into next week with a Louisville Slugger...or a hammer.
    The glue should hold & the wood should break.

    If it fails right smack dab on the glue line - you did something wrong or there's an issue with the glue itself.

    If you want to pass up the test and just trust what others have experienced - - there's all kinds of pictures/tests/videos showing how it's done & the results.
    My granddad always said, :As one door closes, another opens".
    Wonderful man, terrible cabinet maker...

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    WNY
    Posts
    5,573
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Bolton View Post
    Same here. Pizza peels see nearly zero heat. A pizza is made on them, slid off in the oven, and then pulled out of the oven with a pi that quickly cools to nothing. The heat issues you are reading about with epoxy and PVA are heat issues that raise the core of the material to temps that soften the glue line. You can take apart nearly ANY PVA joint with heat. A heat gun, and patience, and pretty much any glue joint will come apart. Technically they can also be reassembled if the heat is re-activated.

    The issue that you will find with peels and cutting boards is that TBIII will clearly show failures in those applications that will leave you in a repair/replace situation in a job with a film finish. I could care less if my cutting boards, pizza peels, charcuteries, creep. They are free-beeies, give-a-ways. The issue is when that same problem happens on a more critical job.

    Learn however you wish. TBIII is the only glue I dont have in the shop period.
    You haven't seen me praise TB III in this thread.

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    WNY
    Posts
    5,573
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Engelhardt View Post
    Easier and far simpler than you think.
    Glue a couple of pieces of wood together - let the glue cure - clamp the pieces in a vice - whomp it into next week with a Louisville Slugger...or a hammer.
    The glue should hold & the wood should break.

    If it fails right smack dab on the glue line - you did something wrong or there's an issue with the glue itself.

    If you want to pass up the test and just trust what others have experienced - - there's all kinds of pictures/tests/videos showing how it's done & the results.
    Look up lap shear test.

    John

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •