Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 26 of 26

Thread: getting more shaper speeds

  1. #16
    How long a tenon can you do with that set Warren? Mine's good for around 1.25".

    It'll be interesting to see what they say if they get back to you. 3/5 manufacturers I talked to said it was fine to split/flip their adj groovers for tenons where others said it was a no no...reasons might be obvious if you could hold them all in your hands and look at them, but it's always too hard to see details on the web site pictures.

    A bunch of my insert tooling came with little setting devices that help make sure the carbide tip projection is the same and to spec all around though the good Whitehill stuff lines itself up just fine. At one time I bought a whole bunch of reducing bushings to enable bushing adjustable sets with various shim combinations and made out fine but I know it's generally considered a no no to bush these out.

    Good to see you making sawdust Warren. I made a sled like yours just two days ago for coping in reverse....not fancy but works perfectly. We'll have to meet for a coffee next time you're up this way....I'll give you some big tenon discs to try,


    B
    https://www.youtube.com/c/DovetailTimberworks

  2. #17
    I'd listen to Joe. I have zero experience with those heads specifically, but on a 5" three wing we run them at 6000 rpm. Everything else seems too fast in my opinion. Our copers run at 7000 rpm, same diameter, but I think that's a touch fast

    End grain will support higher head speeds though as the material clears faster and builds up less heat than long grain. You're usually not running the chip load like you would while powerfeeding either.

  3. #18
    looks like the tennon length from that small head is about 1 5/8" maximum but its determined by the spacer size. They didnt respond to my email if there was any reason not to use them to cross cut. That tennon length is fine for a small door but a larger head would cover it all. I will ask them about the centering thing. The knife rests on a part of the head that is fine but though that angled set screw was supposed to line it all up and thats not so. Id like to know a torque number on the set screw. Never had much luck with any manufacturer asking that on spindle nuts.

    Joe on the shaft and the play thing I put a corrugated on after to try cross cutting with that and it fit perfect there was no play. Just bring that up and it went on easily. With the heads for Tennons I think ideally you want them sitting the same as you are cutting two shoulders. Realize its splitting hairs. Likely each of the heads i have is different as they are different manufactures.

    Martin next time on will try 6000 and see if i feel a difference. Cross cutting its making dust. Dadoeing it makes shavings. you have a three wing cutter and these are two when cross cutting at least when split.
    Last edited by Warren Lake; 02-12-2019 at 1:10 PM.

  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Lake View Post
    Martin next time on will try 6000 and see if i feel a difference. Cross cutting its making dust. Dadoeing it makes shavings. you have a three wing cutter and these are two when cross cutting at least when split.

    Just my guess, but I'd think 7000 rpm is probably pretty close to where you want to be being a two wing. Chip load might be too high at 6000 rpm. We've got a couple of things that we use a two wing on, and I usually bump the speed up to 7000 on those, but thats also power fed again.

    I still need to find that formula and text you a picture of it for determining chip load. I'm not really sure it would apply as I mostly used it for figuring feed speed. Hand feeding things there's more feel to it.
    Shortcut for putting me on ignore:
    http://www.sawmillcreek.org/profile.php?do=ignorelist

  5. #20
    Your feed rate (in inches/minute) divided by your desired chip thickness ( in inches) gives you cuts per minute. Divide that by your number of cutters and you get RPM.

    0.01" chip load is a fine finish. There is some controversy about this formula though because some folks want to consider that at times, you only have a one-knife cut.

    B
    https://www.youtube.com/c/DovetailTimberworks

  6. #21
    Chip Load = Feed Rate / (RPM x # of Wings)
    When reading tool drawings, the # of wings is usually abbreviated as "Z".

    Because the speeds you can get are usually somewhat limited, the easiest thing to control is your feed rate. If you have some scrap pieces, you can feed several pieces, increasing the feed speed with each one. Once you get a surface finish that's too rough for your liking, slow it down by 10% and you've likely found your preferred chip size.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Central WI
    Posts
    5,050
    Ideally the tip speed of the cutter is adjusted first which is dependent on the diameter of the cutter and the feed speed is then adjusted to provide the chip load and cut per inch. Slowing feed speed is only a partial compromise for improper tip speed. Dave

  8. #23
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Posts
    431

  9. #24
    That's a great resource!
    https://www.youtube.com/c/DovetailTimberworks

  10. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by David Kumm View Post
    Ideally the tip speed of the cutter is adjusted first which is dependent on the diameter of the cutter and the feed speed is then adjusted to provide the chip load and cut per inch. Slowing feed speed is only a partial compromise for improper tip speed. Dave
    Correct. Alex's formula looks about what I've got scribbled down somewheres. It's still only a guideline. Sometimes a little change gets a better result. At some point the science stops, and the ear/common sense takes over.

  11. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Wasner View Post
    Correct. Alex's formula looks about what I've got scribbled down somewheres. It's still only a guideline. Sometimes a little change gets a better result. At some point the science stops, and the ear/common sense takes over.
    Well said. I have charts and tables that live beside the shapers to make sure I'm in the ballpark, and then that's all refined while running the test pieces.
    https://www.youtube.com/c/DovetailTimberworks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •