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Thread: What has happened at Popular Woodworking magazine?

  1. #151
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    177
    I'm going to wish SCM Good Luck in your decision. There are many Members that give a lot of advice with out gaining much in the exchange except for helping others. This part of the equation is what management isn't considering. Personally I will not pay for the privilege of helping others on an Internet based forum.

  2. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by John Kee View Post
    I'm going to wish SCM Good Luck in your decision. There are many Members that give a lot of advice with out gaining much in the exchange except for helping others. This part of the equation is what management isn't considering. Personally I will not pay for the privilege of helping others on an Internet based forum.
    Do you ever post any questions? Do you ever feel you've learned anything useful from others' posts?

    It's your prerogative as to what to pay or not pay for, but you might be getting some benefit and not realizing it.

    Even the most experienced, veteran woodworker who gives out more advice than he gets, still has things to learn IMO.

  3. #153
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Hayes, Virginia
    Posts
    14,760
    John,

    You have been a Member here for ten years and have a total of 161 posts. It looks like you are receiving way more than you have been giving. From your statement above it also appears that you don't really feel that its a privilege to help others. We are really going to miss you.
    Last edited by Keith Outten; 03-24-2019 at 10:29 AM.

  4. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by John Kee View Post
    I'm going to wish SCM Good Luck in your decision. There are many Members that give a lot of advice with out gaining much in the exchange except for helping others. This part of the equation is what management isn't considering. Personally I will not pay for the privilege of helping others on an Internet based forum.
    Your point is valid. I think this will be a different forum when it isnt free. But "Management"t HAS considered all of that. If you go back and read Keith Outten's posts over the last 6 mos, it seems to boil down to this (my words, not his):
    1. He spends a lot of time running the forum
    2. He's not a programmer and doesn't feel he can afford to hire one
    3. He asked non-paying members for $ help and hasnt gotten as much as he'd hoped
    4. He's not willing to spend more money out of his pocket on this (I don't blame him)
    5. He's going to roll the dice on a subscriber-based approach He understands that may not succeed, but reference points 1-4 above.
    6. If Subscriber-based doesn't work he'll shut it down (or sell what's left) in good conscience, because he kept his promise to the membership ten years ago.

    When you look at it from Keith's knothole, why should he have to do more? He doesn't "owe us" a free website.
    Last edited by Frederick Skelly; 03-24-2019 at 10:48 AM. Reason: Clarify
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

    “If you want to know what a man's like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors, not his equals.”

  5. #155
    "Personally I will not pay for the privilege of helping others on an Internet based forum."

    That's the spirit!
    *** "I have gained insights from many sources... experts, tradesman & novices.... no one has a monopoly on good ideas." Jim Dailey, SMC, Feb. 19, 2007
    *** "The best way to get better is to leave your ego in the parking lot."----Eddie Wood, 1994
    *** We discovered that he had been educated beyond his intelligence........
    *** Student of Rigonomics & Gizmology

    Waste Knot Woods
    Rice, VA

  6. #156
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Hayes, Virginia
    Posts
    14,760
    Half of SawMill Creek is considerably better then none which is what we will have if we can't pay the bills. There is no need to be concerned about who will leave The Creek or who will stop posting if The Creek doesn't exist.

    I'm trying to save as much as I can rather than just throw in the towel. Maybe we will come back in the future even bigger and better then we have been in the past when we don't have so much overhead.
    Last edited by Keith Outten; 03-24-2019 at 11:10 AM.

  7. #157
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    177
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Outten View Post
    John,

    You have been a Member here for ten years and have a total of 161 posts. It looks like you are receiving way more than you have been giving. From your statement above it also appears that you don't really feel that its a privilege to help others. We are really going to miss you.
    I've been a member for 10 years but really only started looking at the site in the last year or so. There has been the odd thing that I have found interesting to read and not really found much of any great interest hence the low number of posts. I use internet forums as entertainment. I've been a full time woodworker for many years hence the lack of new and interesting topics also the lack of actually asking questions. Most posts are the same old stuff that's also killing the magazine subscribers. You can take that for what its worth. Keith I do sincerely wish you good luck as its a great resource for some, especially the hobby crowd. Do what you gotta do!

  8. #158
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    N Illinois
    Posts
    4,602
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Jones View Post
    "Personally I will not pay for the privilege of helping others on an Internet based forum."

    That's the spirit!
    Yes, a great, positive attitude.
    Jerry

  9. #159
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    177
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Olexa View Post
    Yes, a great, positive attitude.
    Yes Jerry, a very positive attitude, I'm positive I will not pay but I have no issue with you paying to be a member. Its called freedom of choice. LOL

  10. #160
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    2,151
    There are 3 things in any business to deal with, time, money, and aggravation. A person can deal with them one at a time successfully, all three are difficult. I very much respect Keith for explaining things as they are. I like SMC and don't want to see it go. I do see Keith is dealing with problems with the first two items. If he can find a way to work through those then maybe the third one won't get him. I would bet from some of the comments that many here have not had that experience. Keith I wish you well in your endeavor to keep going. I plan to stay around.
    Jim

  11. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by John Kee View Post
    Yes Jerry, a very positive attitude, I'm positive I will not pay but I have no issue with you paying to be a member. Its called freedom of choice. LOL
    Everyone is right here, since we are not talking about public money.

    It is no longer necessary for anyone to try to convince the other side that their side is the right side. I say, ACTION TIME (look at what happened to Brexit -- no amount of talk would get every British happy). The sky won't fall!

    Simon
    Last edited by Simon MacGowen; 03-24-2019 at 5:25 PM.

  12. #162
    Sorry, need a little clarification. I don't see any mention of this pending change elsewhere on the SMC forums, so does that mean the membership only applies to the Neanderthal Heaven forum? Also it appears that only the readers of this thread regarding Popular Woodworking magazine will know of the mandatory proposal. Wouldn't this fundamental change in the forum format warrant a separate thread?

  13. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Brady View Post
    Also it appears that only the readers of this thread regarding Popular Woodworking magazine will know of the mandatory proposal. Wouldn't this fundamental change in the forum format warrant a separate thread?
    When I made a point similar to yours way back in this thread, I was accused of having made a complaint!

    Simon
    Last edited by Simon MacGowen; 03-24-2019 at 5:13 PM.

  14. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Brady View Post
    Sorry, need a little clarification. I don't see any mention of this pending change elsewhere on the SMC forums, so does that mean the membership only applies to the Neanderthal Heaven forum? Also it appears that only the readers of this thread regarding Popular Woodworking magazine will know of the mandatory proposal. Wouldn't this fundamental change in the forum format warrant a separate thread?
    Hi Mike. This discussion has been going on in various threads and announcements for months. Somehow, the latest got buried in this thread and took it way off topic. Here's another thread where it is being discussed. LINK. Post #9 is from Keith.
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

    “If you want to know what a man's like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors, not his equals.”

  15. #165
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Longview WA
    Posts
    27,347
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Jones View Post
    "Personally I will not pay for the privilege of helping others on an Internet based forum."

    That's the spirit!
    There is an old saying, "what goes around comes around."

    To me there are things learnt from helping others learn. Another old saying, "when one teaches, two learn."

    My original introduction to SMC was via a Google search on boiled linseed oil. There have been many here who have helped me in many ways. It is also my hope that some of the content of my posts has been of help to others.

    For me there is a value in helping others and in chipping in to keep such a forum going.

    Hopefully there is a way to keep it going and still allow people searching for answers a way to find them via Google.

    In my imagination there should be a way to limit free access. Maybe tied in with a limit of how many non-paying people can be on at a time. If folks were trying to freeload by erasing their browser history they may also run up against a screen that tells them the site traffic is congested at the moment but if they want to merge into the fast lane they can pay the dues.

    Is there a way to limit images to contributors?

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

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