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Thread: What has happened at Popular Woodworking magazine?

  1. #106
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    Jun 2010
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    twomiles from the "peak of Ohio
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    12,120
    Same thing that happened to PW...and to WOOD-on-Line Forums.....seems to be about to happen here...

    No "Free Lunch", think about all I have to do with my time, in order to bring my Build-along posts here....I let the ones with Sponsors continue with theirs....

  2. #107
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Hayes, Virginia
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    14,760
    I have been discussing the problems we are facing for some time and I have made incremental steps to try and raise awareness hoping to gather support from people volunteering to help us financially. Sadly, only a very small number of people will read any post that I make whether its an announcement or thread. Posting in an existing active thread gets me more attention, trust me this has been the case for over 16 years. I can't make anyone read my posts, the majority skip right over the information I share so I use whatever means I can to share what I know.

    I cannot provide the current level of services without a source of financial support. We went though this same situation in 2005 when the majority here decided that they preferred advertising to pay for free access. Today the majority are using advertising blocking which has taken a toll on our list of advertisers to the point that we cannot continue without finding an alternative source of funds.

    I understand that a large number of people will cease to participate here, I have anticipated that over the last few months as I have made recent decisions. Honestly if 50 cents per month puts a burden on anyone here who probably owns thousands of dollars of tools and machinery that is a sad situation. Anyone who has ever paid for a magazine subscription should concede that the services here are a magnitude of several times more valuable. On a personal note I have often asked Members here what they think that I owe them or what services they think I am obligated to provide for free from my family budget or profits my sign business.

    I have no intention to argue with anyone concerning the changes we are facing, the situation is your doing not mine. The majority here want free service and they block my efforts to provide them.

  3. #108
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
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    I suppose it's a difficult metric to track, but the sponsor's products come up often in conversation and those conversations often result in sales.

    Maybe it could be as simple as everyone is required to put their favorite sponsor in their signature and you guys get a cut every time someone buy's via the links. I think that would be something that does not get removed by ad blockers and would have a worthwhile result.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  4. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Outten View Post
    I cannot provide the current level of services without a source of financial support. We went though this same situation in 2005 when the majority here decided that they preferred advertising to pay for free access. Today the majority are using advertising blocking which has taken a toll on our list of advertisers to the point that we cannot continue without finding an alternative source of funds...
    Keith, I'm one of the members who once was a contributor and decided to go to member status because of the advertising. With the situation that you have described, will the advertising go away once SMC becomes paid-only access?

  5. #110
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Marietta, GA
    Posts
    389
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Outten View Post
    I have been discussing the problems we are facing for some time and I have made incremental steps to try and raise awareness hoping to gather support from people volunteering to help us financially. Sadly, only a very small number of people will read any post that I make whether its an announcement or thread. Posting in an existing active thread gets me more attention, trust me this has been the case for over 16 years. I can't make anyone read my posts, the majority skip right over the information I share so I use whatever means I can to share what I know.

    I cannot provide the current level of services without a source of financial support. We went though this same situation in 2005 when the majority here decided that they preferred advertising to pay for free access. Today the majority are using advertising blocking which has taken a toll on our list of advertisers to the point that we cannot continue without finding an alternative source of funds.

    I understand that a large number of people will cease to participate here, I have anticipated that over the last few months as I have made recent decisions. Honestly if 50 cents per month puts a burden on anyone here who probably owns thousands of dollars of tools and machinery that is a sad situation. Anyone who has ever paid for a magazine subscription should concede that the services here are a magnitude of several times more valuable. On a personal note I have often asked Members here what they think that I owe them or what services they think I am obligated to provide for free from my family budget or profits my sign business.

    I have no intention to argue with anyone concerning the changes we are facing, the situation is your doing not mine. The majority here want free service and they block my efforts to provide them.
    The biggest problem, in my opinion, is not losing active members; it is that there will now be a large hurdle for gaining new members. Like most everyone here I found this place through a Google search. If it wasn't free easy access to knowledge starting out, I would've clicked the next link and never looked back

  6. #111
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    DuBois, PA
    Posts
    1,898
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Outten View Post
    I have been discussing the problems we are facing for some time and I have made incremental steps to try and raise awareness hoping to gather support from people volunteering to help us financially. Sadly, only a very small number of people will read any post that I make whether its an announcement or thread. Posting in an existing active thread gets me more attention, trust me this has been the case for over 16 years. I can't make anyone read my posts, the majority skip right over the information I share so I use whatever means I can to share what I know.

    I cannot provide the current level of services without a source of financial support. We went though this same situation in 2005 when the majority here decided that they preferred advertising to pay for free access. Today the majority are using advertising blocking which has taken a toll on our list of advertisers to the point that we cannot continue without finding an alternative source of funds.

    I understand that a large number of people will cease to participate here, I have anticipated that over the last few months as I have made recent decisions. Honestly if 50 cents per month puts a burden on anyone here who probably owns thousands of dollars of tools and machinery that is a sad situation. Anyone who has ever paid for a magazine subscription should concede that the services here are a magnitude of several times more valuable. On a personal note I have often asked Members here what they think that I owe them or what services they think I am obligated to provide for free from my family budget or profits my sign business.

    I have no intention to argue with anyone concerning the changes we are facing, the situation is your doing not mine. The majority here want free service and they block my efforts to provide them.
    So, the fee will be $6.00/year?
    If the thunder don't get you, the lightning will.

  7. #112
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Graham, NC
    Posts
    68
    Quote Originally Posted by steven c newman View Post
    Same thing that happened to PW...and to WOOD-on-Line Forums.....seems to be about to happen here...

    No "Free Lunch", think about all I have to do with my time, in order to bring my Build-along posts here....I let the ones with Sponsors continue with theirs....
    Steve, I contributed yesterday. It was $6. That's lunch at Taco Bell. . .one time.
    There's never enough time to do it right, but there's always enough time to do it over.

  8. #113
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    DuBois, PA
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    1,898
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Zaffuto View Post
    So, the fee will be $6.00/year?
    I'm in, with a bit extra.
    If the thunder don't get you, the lightning will.

  9. #114
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Johannesburg, South Africa
    Posts
    1,076
    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt Cady View Post
    The biggest problem, in my opinion, is not losing active members; it is that there will now be a large hurdle for gaining new members. Like most everyone here I found this place through a Google search. If it wasn't free easy access to knowledge starting out, I would've clicked the next link and never looked back
    What about free access for the first six months or 50 posts? Hopefully after that the person is hooked.
    "If you have all your fingers, you can convert to Metric"

  10. #115
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Hayes, Virginia
    Posts
    14,760
    Contributors have always had the option to eliminate banner advertising here. They can turn them on or off at any time.

    We don't always have a means to configure custom features, only what vBulletin offers and I can't afford custom programming. We are still planning to convert to Xenforo at some point in time, what we can customize is not known at this time.

    Attracting new Subscribers will be more difficult. We hope that our Hall of Fame will serve to give people a taste of what is inside The Creek. Offering free access for 90 days will not prevent people from registering every 90 days.

    The subscription rate will be somewhere between one to two dollars per month. All of our existing Contributors accounts will not be changed for their current period. If everyone would subscribe we could reduce the 6 dollars per year but we know the numbers will drop so the fee will probably have to be increased.

  11. #116
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Perth, Australia
    Posts
    9,469
    Hi Keith

    I have no issue with being charged a fee, and have been a Contributor for some years. I visit every day, even often pop in several times a day. This is a great woodworking forum ... but it is so because of the members who contribute here. Anything that makes membership difficult is going to dissuade membership, and then activity on the forums. That will kill the website.

    As mentioned, $6 pa is a pittance. Most here spend more per day on something else and do not question that purchase. I do not think that it is the money, per se, that is the concern. It is how this is set up.

    The other matter is the ad block apps. I use one on my laptop. I am on my iPad at present, which does not do this. It makes me aware that some websites will notify you to switch off an ad block to continue viewing. Sawmill Creek does not do this. That could be a simple solution to the advert situation .... if viewers then pause their ad blocker, the desired situation is restored, ads are activated, and you obtain your needed revenue. I would still continue to be a Contributor.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  12. Maybe if you ran off a few more valuable contributors (a la Stan Covington) that would increase the perceived value for the monetary contributions you need to keep the lights on....

  13. #118
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    twomiles from the "peak of Ohio
    Posts
    12,120
    Used to get mad at PBS every March....as their Fund Drives always pre-empted Norm's New Yankee Workshop....and you never did see those episodes again....wait, this is March, isn't it?

    If'n I knew HOW and WHERE to send the dan..g $6 I would...don't have a Pay Pal account, anymore. Maybe just this once, I might try the "Contributor" and see IF it is worth the trouble...

  14. #119
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    In the foothills of the Sandia Mountains
    Posts
    16,622
    Steven, SMC's snail mail address is at the bottom of the Donate page.
    https://sawmillcreek.org/payments.php
    Please help support the Creek.


    "It's paradoxical that the idea of living a long life appeals to everyone, but the idea of getting old doesn't appeal to anyone."
    Andy Rooney



  15. #120
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Jacksonville, FL
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    859
    Quote Originally Posted by steven c newman View Post
    Used to get mad at PBS every March....as their Fund Drives always pre-empted Norm's New Yankee Workshop....and you never did see those episodes again....wait, this is March, isn't it?

    If'n I knew HOW and WHERE to send the dan..g $6 I would...don't have a Pay Pal account, anymore. Maybe just this once, I might try the "Contributor" and see IF it is worth the trouble...
    PayPal allows you to use a credit or debit card just like any other online purchase. No account necessary.
    Marshall
    ---------------------------
    A Stickley fan boy.

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