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Thread: Unexpected Side Effect of Sharpening New Tools

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Wilson View Post
    The unexpected part is the effect on my hands, in particular my finger tips. My phone no longer recognizes my fingerprint to unlock the screen.
    I have the same problem and hand creme is what usually helps me. It acts immediately (in case of fingerprint scanner) and helps to cure the skin.

  2. Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Hughes View Post
    I like my edges shiny.
    Why is this? Just curious.

  3. #18
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    I think itís because the droplets of blood sit up on the steel with a higher angle of contact, so they look nice and rounded with a shiny background!
    ​You can do a lot with very little! You can do a little more with a lot!

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by William Fretwell View Post
    I think it’s because the droplets of blood sit up on the steel with a higher angle of contact, so they look nice and rounded with a shiny background!
    This.

    Seriously though, I find that I get better results with a smoother if the intersecting planes forming the edge both have a mirror sheen. It seems to cut the wood a little easier and leaves a better finish.
    It's wood dust. Saw dust would suggest a problem.

  5. In Japan they natural finishing stones for kanna blades and they have these planing contests where the goal is to make a shavings as thin as possible. Some people achieve a 3 or 4 micron shaving. You need an extremely sharp edge for that, yet the kanna blades don't have a mirror sheen. I suspect you, like so many others, have been conditioned to think a mirror polish is better. What's far more important for a smooth finish is how small the serrations of the edge are, as well as the shape. The closer you can get the zero, the better the result will be.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica de Boer View Post
    In Japan they natural finishing stones for kanna blades and they have these planing contests where the goal is to make a shavings as thin as possible. Some people achieve a 3 or 4 micron shaving. You need an extremely sharp edge for that, yet the kanna blades don't have a mirror sheen. I suspect you, like so many others, have been conditioned to think a mirror polish is better. What's far more important for a smooth finish is how small the serrations of the edge are, as well as the shape. The closer you can get the zero, the better the result will be.
    Those Japanese contests are amazing. Your last sentence is in conflict though. You discount the effect of a mirror polished edge but acknowledge that “closer to zero” with respect to serrations is ideal. Zero serrations = perfectly smooth = mirror polish. To clarify, all I’m talking about is the cutting edge. I don’t bother finishing the whole back of the plane iron.
    It's wood dust. Saw dust would suggest a problem.

  7. I don't think it's conflicting at all. My dad has a super fine natural finishing stone from Japan that is in the 20.000 grit range (I believe it's a Nakayama tomae). I've looked at the edge this stone produces under a magnifier and it's super smooth. However, this stone doesn't produce a mirror polish. Because of how it sharpen the steel reflects the light differently than steel that has been sharpened with a synthetic stone. It's like there's a misty haze over the polish.

  8. #23
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    Same here the shiny polished edge is slippery to the wood. Itís very noticeable with my carving gouges.
    Aj

  9. #24
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    Rob, the best I’ve done is around 8 micron (in practice not in competition). I get identical results between my 13,000 sigma which produces a mirror edge and my Nakayama asagi which produces a hazy edge. The hazy edge is longer wearing and my preference in daily use.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  10. #25
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    Interesting. I'm not blessed to own such a stone. I use more pedestrian methods, typically 3m film on glass blocks. My finest media is represented to be .3 micron, or about 20K grit depending on who's conversion chart you believe. It leaves a gleaming mirror polish. The leather strop I use for periodic touch ups leaves a similar finish. I wonder if the dynamics of using a natural stone (slurry) versus the film (no slurry) make a difference here? I've avoided the water stone rabbit hole so far. Hoping I can hold off a little longer
    It's wood dust. Saw dust would suggest a problem.

  11. #26
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    My Shapton 15K stone produces a mirror edge when finished. It's not necessarily what I'm going for, it just does it as part of the sharpening process. It's mirrored and sharp when finished.

  12. #27
    My sharpening yielded a full width shaving of edge of 2x4 that I have been using for testing the edges. It is 0.003 inch (76.4 micron) on both edges. The plane left a lovely surface on the 2x4. Good enough for me. I used 1000, 3000, 6000, 8000, and 10,000 grit Ohishi stones from Lie-Nielsen on this blade followed by a few strokes on a leather paddle with green compound. I used a DMT diamond plate to flatten each stone before use. I used a Lie-Nielsen honing guide set for 30 degrees to hone the secondary bevel.

    Not mirror polish but you can see yourself on the back. It took about 45 minutes to get the blade from fresh out of wrapping paper to this point.

    IMG_1572.jpg
    Last edited by Thomas Wilson; 02-03-2019 at 12:46 PM.

  13. #28
    I'm with Jessica, Brian, and others in the shine does not equal sharp camp. Ceteris paribus a shiney iron will likely not be as long lasting as a iron with a hazy finish such as one you get with a natural stone. The difference is in the scratch pattern and the shape of the scratches. A relatively deep and straight sided scratch will reflect more light (be shinier) than a more rounded scratch such as you get with a natural stone. Bottom line shinier does not equal sharper.

    ken

  14. #29
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    Polished edges in tool and die prevent galling of the tool when working certain metals in molds,coining dies, form dies, draw dies. It is very important.D2 steel is 12% Chrome and is used extensively for this reason.
    In wood working I try to polish the surfaces of my plane irons and chisels with Green polishing compound. The slipperieness of the surface reduces friction and galling of the edge of the tool.
    You can get tools plenty sharp without stropping, and you can get tools very shiny without being very sharp too.
    I believe that stropping a blade or chisel will produce a keener, more refined edge over just stones, but is not necessary all of the time.
    Just my opinion, not meaning to overturn the apple cart here.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Wilson View Post
    My sharpening yielded a full width shaving of edge of 2x4 that I have been using for testing the edges. It is 0.003 inch (300 micron) on both edges. The plane left a lovely surface on the 2x4. Good enough for me. I used 1000, 3000, 6000, 8000, and 10,000 grit Ohishi stones from Lie-Nielsen on this blade followed by a few strokes on a leather paddle with green compound. I used a DMT diamond plate to flatten each stone before use. I used a Lie-Nielsen honing guide set for 30 degrees to hone the secondary bevel.

    Not mirror polish but you can see yourself on the back. It took about 45 minutes to get the blade from fresh out of wrapping paper to this point.

    IMG_1572.jpg
    .003" is approximately 76 micron. Micron is a metric measurement it is .001mm

    Quote Originally Posted by michael langman View Post
    Polished edges in tool and die prevent galling of the tool when working certain metals in molds,coining dies, form dies, draw dies. It is very important.D2 steel is 12% Chrome and is used extensively for this reason.
    In wood working I try to polish the surfaces of my plane irons and chisels with Green polishing compound. The slipperieness of the surface reduces friction and galling of the edge of the tool.
    You can get tools plenty sharp without stropping, and you can get tools very shiny without being very sharp too.
    I believe that stropping a blade or chisel will produce a keener, more refined edge over just stones, but is not necessary all of the time.
    Just my opinion, not meaning to overturn the apple cart here.
    With respect, I feel Tool and Die is probably not the best comparison because that comparison is likely a polished edge to that of what came off of a grinding machine. Natural stones have little effect on D2 so one cannot compare a mirrored finish to that of a hazy finish left off a natural stone. If you use a fine synthetic stone that produces a hazy finish (some do) and polish your D2 edges with that I'm certain that it too will help to prevent galling just the same.

    Stropping does not improve an edge that where the burr is already gone, my experience in Kezurou-kai proved that to me. My edges last longer without stropping and stropping caused a degradation of the edge by comparison to the result off the stone. I'm not aware of anyone who strops for the competition (doesn't mean that it doesn't happen, I just haven't seen it first hand) and many are capable of less than 6 micron shavings. I use it as a litmus test because if an edge were improved by stropping it would show here.

    I use stropping when someone hands me a blade that doesn't have a flat back, I also use it for knife sharpening to remove the burr entirely. It's not an improvement, but basically a means to an ends when the back of the tool presents a limitation.
    Last edited by Brian Holcombe; 02-03-2019 at 12:59 PM.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

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