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Thread: adjustable groovers for shapers-which ones ?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Parrish View Post
    Thanks Rod.

    Hmmmmm. Now Iím not sure but I pulled the bolt and some of the black spacers and measured the silver spindle getting 1.18Ē with my calipers which is 30mm. That said, I have no clue which system that means I have since this didnít come with an original invoice or whatnot and since I bought it used from its second owner that also didnít know.
    I believe I read somewhere you have a 2007 Machine Greg. That would put it in the older category with the 1" main shaft and sleeves not the newer MT design which came out a few years ago. I have a good friend with the same machine. A quick call to Felder would tell you the proper parts that need to be ordered, I'm assuming the 1 1/4" sleeve with spacers, PN 503-172 from an old catalog I have. In 2008 it cost $121.00.

  2. #62
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    It is a 2007 machine but the silver shaft measures at 1.18” or 30mm. I hope that is the case as I ordered a 30mm based euroblock. That said, not sure how I could get a 1.18” measurement on my caliper u less it’s a 30mm spindle shaft unless I didn’t measure the right thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kee View Post
    I believe I read somewhere you have a 2007 Machine Greg. That would put it in the older category with the 1" main shaft and sleeves not the newer MT design which came out a few years ago. I have a good friend with the same machine. A quick call to Felder would tell you the proper parts that need to be ordered, I'm assuming the 1 1/4" sleeve with spacers, PN 503-172 from an old catalog I have. In 2008 it cost $121.00.

  3. #63
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    I would assume the you measured the diameter of the spindle with the 30mm sleeve in place. The sleeve should slide off and the main shaft is 1" as per the pic from the Hammer catalog
    20190207_160255.jpg

  4. #64
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    Mine looks different than that but I measured the silver spindle under the black rings.
    7EC4A1C1-DD26-4D3D-8589-3FCB6147D56E.jpg
    635CA314-3760-47F2-A82F-98C7B806B526.jpg

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Parrish View Post
    Mine looks different than that but I measured the silver spindle under the black rings.
    7EC4A1C1-DD26-4D3D-8589-3FCB6147D56E.jpg
    635CA314-3760-47F2-A82F-98C7B806B526.jpg
    Greg perhaps taking a pic with the top cap off and rings removed would help solve your problem. This is my last post in this thread because it has drifted so far off the OP's original question.

  6. #66
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    Ok so as the OP of this thread I have one final question before we let this thread join the archives..I was wondering what about buying three tenon disks (fixed) in say 8,10,and 12mm then stacking any two disks with spacers and shims and using the third as the mortise thickness. Of course these are all same diameter,say 180mm. Now I would also buy reducing bushings to use these on my sliding saw (30mm). Is this a workable ,usable plan. With one adjustable groover the same diameter you would be able to "groove the world". Am I beginning to think 'shaper' well yet ?

  7. #67
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    Mike you would have to have the 2 pinholes added to the shaper cutters/tenoning disks to use on the saw like any saw blade. Aside from that as long as those widths and depth of cut work for for you.

  8. #68
    I agree with bl John. Anytime you can add versatility to a tool for little cost, do it.

  9. #69
    not sure im getting the three thing. If you are talking using one of them to make a slot or the groove (its not a mortise), then that one of the three cutters would have to have spurs on both sides the other two only need them on the one side.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Kees View Post
    Ok so as the OP of this thread I have one final question before we let this thread join the archives..I was wondering what about buying three tenon disks (fixed) in say 8,10,and 12mm then stacking any two disks with spacers and shims and using the third as the mortise thickness. Of course these are all same diameter,say 180mm. Now I would also buy reducing bushings to use these on my sliding saw (30mm). Is this a workable ,usable plan. With one adjustable groover the same diameter you would be able to "groove the world". Am I beginning to think 'shaper' well yet ?
    Mike, at 180 diameter these would probably be considered groovers. These will have the knickers both sides. You need to see if 180 diameter will raise above your saw table. Not familiar with Felder saws. It is possible to use reduction bushings on the saw if they clear the pin holes. Amana makes a inexpensive 1.25 to 30 mm bushing that is shallow in depth that would probably work on the disks you mention possibly not the 8mm though. The outer flange on these are usually 5 mm thick so you need to take that into consideration when mounting to the saw.
    Rod would know if this is workable on the Felder.

    I think you are asking if the fixed groovers could be mounted between your adj groovers to get more thickness?
    Be careful here. Normally on a 3 piece adj groover the center cutter is designed to nest in between the 2 halves and the shims still workable between all. These center cutters will not have knickers. It is possible to run the fixed groovers without knickers but the whole setup could be messy..

    I have have a couple Felder- Stark fixed 12mm groovers. I will take a look Monday to see if those could possibly fit between 2 adj halves. And as John mentions these would have to have pin holes which typically the fixed width groovers do not have.

    Versatile tooling is good but you can push the limits to where it is not practical.

  11. #71
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    Mike and Joe the 180mm tooling will extend above the table on a 700 series saw enough to do most dados. I used the 180mm Hammer dado set for many years and only sold it to get a superior cut in melamine. The max size Felder has for slot cutters is 300mm and they are mounted like a conventional saw blade. The Felder adjustable dado cutters need to have a spacer removed for their use and have a max width of just over 20mm. The 228mm dado set they offer is actually 2 separate adjustable cutters and offers the deepest groove potential. Also works great for cutting one pass tenons when used on a shaper. For the application Mike is talking about I believe the bushings could be used but offer some spacing/placement issues and like you Joe believe its not the most practical. That's one of the reasons I suggested a 30mm for his shaper if it was available. I don't know anything about SCM/Minimax accessories.

  12. #72
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    My thinking with the three groover idea was being able to cut tenons and tongue and groove joints in stock ranging from 3/4" to 1 1/2" or so with three "tongue" sizes.Then I thought hey why not be able to use on my t.s. too. Next I got all excited and thought what if I combine an adjustable groover for even more fun.I tried getting on parts pronto to figure out my shaper spindle but it does not come up,where do I go for Minimax parts now ? John that 228 Felder sounds like the best option to use for both machines. I am going to pursue the 30mm spindle and see where that takes me before making any tooling purchases.Joe and john thanks for pointing out what I have not figured out and providing options and advice,much appreciated.

  13. #73
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    Mike unfortunately all I can offer is the Canadian website with the contact info.

    https://www.scmgroup.com/en_CA/scmwo...any/scm-canada

    When I first start my search for info on sliding table saws I tried to make contact with a SCM saleperson. The person showed absolutely no interest in my business after repeated attempts so I went to searching for other suppliers. At a woodworking show 2007 I found Felder and a few others. Felder had an untrained sales team at the time with a new office and very little actual experience but were eager for business. That has changed in recent years as they are all hungry for hobby and one man shops money. Hopefully you will have a better experience than I did. You haven't mentioned the year your T-50 was made so I would suggest a phone call and see if you can find a parts person that can possibly see what's still available for your shaper. The only other avenue is the used market, so contacting one of the resellers might be an option. There is a fellow member, David Kumm has a good knowledge of the used scene might be worth contacting.

  14. #74
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    I dug out some of my groovers yesterday.

    I noticed the Felder - Stark ones have pinholes that I assume might fit the saw? The adj one is 180 diameter. Donít know if the fixed groovers come that size. Those could be a good solution for you if you find a 30 shaft for the shaper.
    153C5B52-06EA-414D-BA1A-CEAB98F63675.jpg

    Next is is a picture of one of my Garniga sets showing the third element to get more thickness. These have to be specific designed to the groovers and nest in between. These same groovers are used in my profile and square edge house door sets and I can go to 3Ē thick or more of doors with various panel thickness by adding the middle element and spacers.
    0DF8810E-46CE-4B9F-B359-EA486B390440.jpg

    Here are my 250mm adj groovers that I use for tenoning. I have larger 320 disks for this but these fit in my shaper fence for quick setup and I can make quicker adjustments for shim space than the dedicated ones on a sleeve. ( shown in the shop made hood in these pictures) I had Zuani make some custom reduction bushings so I could use a element out of a sleeved set to do double tenons. This could also be accomplished by adding a fixed groover between the halves but I had the other element. Using these stacked sets make incredibly accurate and clean tenons.

    EA9AB41A-F721-4E65-8541-9D1ED1F4B5E7.jpg
    8A698F5F-AAE4-42BD-8793-E5349EFAD718.jpg
    18CE6AFE-9EE8-4BBD-9AC2-68D8430F6C37.jpg

  15. #75
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    Joe interesting find on the Stark groovers. If the pinholes have a center to center on approx. 46mm diameter they would fit the saw. They are still shown as viable PN's from the pics in the moulding section of the Felder catalog but it appears the pinholes are not right and could be put there for other applications. If you have a minute a measurement of the center to center distance would be great and remove any doubt. Mike D and I have been considering making a shaper hood for tenoning with larger cutters, I like your simple but effective approach.

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