Oneida freeze-up

[Kevin Jenness]

I installed a new to me 3 hp Oneida Super Dust Gorilla on the outside wall of my shop back in November. Since then I have had to pull the motor twice due to what turned out to be an intermittent short in the start capacitor. Extraction is an ordeal complicated by tight quarters and cold weather. I was more than a little chagrined when the unit again failed to start yesterday morning. I pulled the end cap off and found that the rotor would not turn, plus one of the bolts that holds the motor together was loose and sticking up. Fearing that the loose bolt might have caused the difficulty and leery of forcing things I decided to pull it out yet again in 5 degree weather.

When I got it up far enough I found that ice had formed between the bolt heads that anchor the motor to its support flange and the top of the impeller, apparently from condensation when shop air hits the inside of the impeller housing. I wound up moving the impeller about 3/16" farther out on the motor shaft in hopes that any future icicles will be more fragile and bust loose under starting torque. I figure if it does fail to start again I can pull the cap and break it loose with a pipe wrench on the shaft end above the cooling fan. While I had it out I put thread-locker on the motor bolts- it did not appear that the motor shop had done so.

I'm curious if anyone else with an exterior mounted cyclone has run into this.new DC.jpg

[Nick Decker]

Is that really intended for operating outdoors?

[Kevin Jenness]

Well, I have seen many cyclones setup outdoors, in fact industrial units are almost always so. I don't believe Oneida specifies indoor use. It appears that this design is not optimal for the cold weather here. This unit replaced a 2hp Oneida with a different motor mount that operated reliably in the same location for 24 years.

My shop is pretty full, so having the DC outside helps space-wise, plus whatever dust exposure from changing the collector bags happens outdoors. The cartridge filter is located inside in a bumped-out closet. You can see that I fabricated a transition to make that happen.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Kevin,

If you go to the Products page of Oneida's website and scroll to the bottom, here's what you will find:

"Outdoor Installation:
Systems installed outside and/or exposed to inclement weather will require a specific motor configuration, available only by phone order, to maintain their cETLus certification."

Obviously not all of their systems are manufactured for outdoor installation.

[Matt Day]

Good question Nick. Their website says this though “Systems installed outside and/or exposed to inclement weather will require a specific motor configuration, available only by phone order, to maintain their cETLus certification.”

Who’s Cletus? 😉

[Ben Rivel]

Sounds like a call to Oneida is in order.

[Kevin Jenness]

Technically you are correct about outdoor installation but I am not too concerned about weather exposure given the roof over the unit. The motor is pretty well tucked in there.

[Darcy Warner]

The only specific motor I could think of would be a TEFC, which most are anyway. Totally enclosed fan cooled.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Call Oneida to see if they have heard of anyone having the problem. While you have them on the phone, ask what the differences are in the motors made for outdoor installations.

[Malcolm McLeod]

I would also ask them how your move of the impeller will impact performance.

[peter gagliardi]

Been running my Sternvent 7500 CFM unit outside since new in 2000. No issues except replacing a motor a few years ago.
To be fair, mine is what would be considered a true small industrial unit.
I think an exterior mounted collector is the smartest option, despite the heat loss if we run it hours on end, which is not often.
Rarely do you hear of fire or spark issues with cyclones specifically, but I have no interest in risking whats inside.
The noise delta is much,much better as well.

[Peter Kuhlman]

Open Drip Proof ODP motors are commonly used outdoors on things like pool pumps and such. TEFC motors are my preference for any uses or upgrades even indoors as they are sealed and dust and chips have no major impacts. At work I always used TEFC motors as they were more reliable and cheaper in the long run.
In your installation I don’t know why you are having the problems unless thee are really low end motors. Baldor is my preferred single phase motor brand based upon over 30 years of installing motors. There are definitely lower cost motors available but they use lower quality bearings, capacitors, insulation.
Your description of the problem sounds like your diagnosis of a moisture problem between the motor and blower is accurate.
Yep - give Oneida a call on this issue.

[Kevin Jenness]

This is a Baldor TEFC motor. I took the start capacitor to the motor shop twice for testing, as that is the easiest problem to fix. It was only after taking the motor in twice that the capacitor tested faulty- the shop owner said that was the first time he had seen that happen with a capacitor. The first time they just cleaned up the centrifugal start switch and it worked until it didn't. I have my fingers crossed that the electrical problem is fixed. Of all the motors in the shop to crap out this is the worst as all the other machines depend on it and it is a serious pain to remove for service.

I have a call in to Oneida, but I doubt they will tell me anything I don't already know. If the freezing becomes a recurrent problem i will have to re-evaluate my options. I kick myself for building the system into my shop the way I did as it limits me to a certain configuration and size of cyclone without doing some remodeling.

[Kevin Jenness]

I did talk to Oneida customer service. The fellow said that they could supply a washdown grade motor but was fine with the idea of using the standard motor under a roof as mine is. He had not heard of any units freezing up from condensation. Moving the impeller out slightly on the shaft did not make any apparent difference in performance.

[Doug Garson]

Would it be worth your while to build an enclosure around the motor with a small heater for the winter?