Added a new plane yesterday

[Stew Denton]

Hi Mike,

One small addition to what Jim wrote about the plane being a later type 11. The "V" trademark was one of 2 used on the type 11. The first was somewhat rectangular and had "Stanley Rule and Lever Co." written in it the top of that line written in an "arched" way, the later logo was the "V" logo that yours has. More evidence of it being a late type 11, as Jim wrote.

Keep the type 11, sell the other one. By the way, as you know, if you restore the later one before selling it, you should get a lot more money for it than you paid for both of them. You got a really good deal, to say the least.

Stew

[Mike Manning]

Hi Mike,

One small addition to what Jim wrote about the plane being a later type 11. The "V" trademark was one of 2 used on the type 11. The first was somewhat rectangular and had "Stanley Rule and Lever Co." written in it the top of that line written in an "arched" way, the later logo was the "V" logo that yours has. More evidence of it being a late type 11, as Jim wrote.

Keep the type 11, sell the other one. By the way, as you know, if you restore the later one before selling it, you should get a lot more money for it than you paid for both of them. You got a really good deal, to say the least.

Stew

Stew I did see the other iron logo in the Plane Type Study. I did plan on keeping the older plane. I don't know if anyone noticed but the tote on the later #7 has a piece of electrician's tape on it. I've assumed there's a crack or a repair there but haven't built up the courage to take a peek yet. Yes, I got a good deal on those. The gentlemen was still sharp as a tack and still working in his very large shop. Still doing a lot of wheeling & dealing too. He had a really nice old metal lathe outside under an awning. I'm not a metal guy but if I was I would have tried to get that from him. Thanks for the advice!

Mike, you mentioned a shallow bath of evaporust. Just a word of caution, the evaporust can leave an “etch” line if the piece isn’t fully emerged.

Dangit! I knew that but forgot it and likely would have forgotten when the time came to bathe them. Thanks Phil!

All Anyone got any thoughts about how to make sure I've got all rust out of the corrugations?

[steven c newman]

Wire wheel in a drill press does the job for me.

[Mike Manning]

As I suspected...

IMG_7984.jpgIMG_7985.jpg

The tote was broken and looks like someone tried to repair it. There isn't 100% surface to surface between the two pieces. You can see that someone has either planed or sanded both ends. I'd appreciate advice on the best way to fix the tote. Additionally, IF I looked to find a replacement what planes had the same tote as the #7? This is just a hardwood tote not rosewood but I'm sure that's obvious to 99.99% of you.

Thanks!

[Jim Koepke]

The Stanley #4-1/2 and all the larger planes (not the #5-1/4 or #10-1/4) used the same tote with two fasteners. The later #5s may have used a different tote, this may have been in the handyman line.

They are often available on ebay. This is one of my reasons for always checking for old or broken planes while rust hunting.

One way to repair a broken handle when the pieces do not fit together properly is to re-saw it near the break and then make a shim with similar wood or make a multi-ply piece of various woods for effect, to fill in where wood was lost. One of my handles was made larger doing this. It is the only plane all my fingers can fit comfortably around the tote with room to spare.

jtk

[Stew Denton]

Mike,

I have trouble telling the Rosewood totes with certainty, but can usually tell the later ones that aren't Rosewood.

Jim's idea is good advise. One thing on that, I usually clean off the joint areas when I glue up a tote, especially if it is Rosewood. The rosewood is an oily wood, and so you want to clean off the oiliness before glueing it up. This can be done with acetone, MEK, or lacquer thinner. Let it dry really well after this treatment, however, to make certain that all of the solvent has dried. I have all three solvents, so usually clean the joint first with MEK, because it is a better solvent for this purpose, and follow that with acetone to get as much of the MEK off as possible, to aid in drying.

To make sure the glue up is straight, use the bolt to check allignment, or better yet sand a dowel to a somewhat snug fit, insert it into the two pieces and slide the pieces together to see how they line up. You can use the original bolt through the tote when you glue it up, to keep things alligned, but watch things carefully and remove it before the glue dries and glues the bolt in place....a bad thing indeed.

I like to use the original formula of Gorialla glue, and it has done a good job for me. If you have the original break that hasn't been messed with (unfortunately I know this is not your situation), if you do the glue up carefully, getting everything lined up virtually perfectly, and then sand the glue joint area carefully after a thorough drying, it is often difficult even to find the breakline after you refinish the tote. This is the case with a clear finish. In your case, where you paint it black to match the original paint, it should be invisible if you do it fairly carefully.

Again, if you buy a replacement tote on the auction site, take care to make sure that the totes have the same profile. The later painted/non-rosewood totes sell for a little less money, and that is what you want to match your plane. To flesh out what Jim wrote, the #5s, 5 1/2s, 6s, 7s, and 8s all take the same tote.

Note that your broken tote is not like the totes from the older planes. It has a one piece bolt to attach the tote to the plane body, not the rod threaded on both ends with the brass nut type. This means that the totes for the earlier planes, mostly the Rosewood ones, will not fit with the one piece bolts. Thus the need for the later type. I do not know if the once piece bolt has the same threads as the treaded rod type, you can check by trying the treaded rod type from your other plane. If it does have the same thread type, you might be able to replace the broken tote with an earlier one using an earlier threaded rod and brass nut. It will cost more, but is an option.

Stew

[Mike Manning]

Stew, Jim,
Thanks for the advice. I'll keep my eye out for a replacement tote and attempt to fix this one. What glue would you guys recommend one of these tote repairs?

Mike

[steven c newman]

I have used just good old Elmer's...some will used epoxy...but they also add a colour to the epoxy to match the handle's colour. Most planes from the WW2 era, when brass was needed elsewhere...would have a blued steel bolt ( and a washer, or two) usually having a slight dome to the head. Hole for the bolt did not need to be as deep as the ones with a brass end.

To use a rod & brass "bolt" in those style handles....you would need to drill a bit deeper, for the brass end to fit down into. The other "sticking point" would be under the handle....they changed the size of the hole where the bolt came out....as the "boss" where the bolt threads into the base changed....some needed a larger diameter hole, to fit over the boss. Not sure when Stanley ( and others) started using that boss....if the base has a raised "platform" for the handle to sit on, usually there wasn't any boss, or hole to match.

Tip: If you do glue the handle parts, leave the threaded rod in the hole.....wax the rod so glue won't stick to it...rod keeps the hole clear of glue, and helps align the parts.

"Handyman" handles tended to use a tab sticking up from the base, instead of the small toe bolt. Millers Falls Type 5 style handles had a hollow pin, that fit into both the handle and the base...

Note: IF the rear handle had the blued steel flat head bolt....so did the front knob....have seen both with a lockwasher added....

[Jim Koepke]

Titebond and epoxy have been used to repair my broken totes. Epoxy more recently in favor of the Titebond. The epoxy is easier for blending in rosewood sawdust to help hide the repair.

Epoxy will actually fill gaps, Titebond will not.

As was mentioned earlier it is important to degrease rosewood before gluing.

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

Here is my shop made clamp for gluing totes. Sometimes this is merely a third hand to hold the parts while they are being aligned. With epoxy the clamping doesn't have to be tight:

Tote Repair Clamp.jpg

This is the page from the site that inspired me to build such a thing:

http://www.rexmill.com/planes101/han...air/handle.htm

This is another set up of mine for working on totes:

Tote on Base.jpg

Just because a base is broken doesn't mean it is useless.

jtk

[Mike Manning]

Thanks Steven & Jim.


I didn't think the tote and knob were rosewood. I thought that just because I could see what I thought was wide grain on the knob. How can I tell if the knob and tote are rosewood versus hardwood? I posted pics of the knob and tote above. Does that not help?

Jim,
I like you jig and my create something similar. Also, like that you gave new life to a broken base!

[Stew Denton]

Mike,

That is one of the totes that I view as not being Rosewood. Stanley couldn't get Rosewood during the war, and used hardwood that they generally painted black. They did that later on as well, switched back to Rosewood briefly I think, and finally used hardwood exclusively. The hardwood they used may have been beech but I don't know for certain. The totes I have seen that were minus the black paint, were very light color with grain that was not pronouced at all. To me it clearly looks like a painted hardwood tote, becuase the raw wood portion appears to be nearly white, and I don't see any strong grain pattern.

Every knob and tote that I have sanded and refinished, which was from the Rosewood era, was much darker than the inside of your tote, and had a pretty noticable grain.

Stew

[Mike Manning]

Today has been a good day. Found these 2 Stanley planes on Craigslist this morning. They are now in my shop ready for a little rust removal and cleanup. They're in really good condition and I think the components are correct for the planes - a #3 and a #5. Blades show little use, the knobs and totes are in great condition as well. The #5 has 3 pat dates, the small depth adjustment nut and the iron has the correct V-shaped logo which leads me to believe it's a type 11. The #3 has 2 pat dates, small depth adjustment nut but it doesn't have the enlarged and arched frog rib, the iron has the Pat Ap'l '92 on it. Leads me to think it's a type 9 with an older iron but possibly the irons were still available at that time. The seller was a guy who does storage unit auctions. The two planes set me back $40. Yep, it's been a very good day thus far.

IMG_8025.jpgIMG_8026.jpgIMG_8029.jpgIMG_8034.jpg

I hit the bottoms of the planes with a razor to remove a couple of rust buildups and then followed with some 000 steel wool. They weren't very rusty at all. Spent about 5 minutes on both the bottoms.

[Stew Denton]

Mike,

Another "ya did good!" They look like you will not have to do much to restore them to good user status. The knob and tote on each look excellent, and the irons have a lot of life left, and you may only need to grind off a very short section down on the business of the irons. Good planes indeed!

Stew

[Jim Koepke]

Two very gloat worthy finds.

The #3 is especially good. You do not find them in that price range often. It is hard to find a decent #3 by itself for $40.

The #3 looks to be an early type 9. Your mention of the blade logo also suggests this. Some of the early type 9 planes also had a single patent date on the lateral adjustment lever.

jtk