SawStop ICS and sliding crosscut table

[Gordon Cameron]

I am choosing between the ICS and the PCS and have read most of the threads on that choice. A point that has been raised, but I have not seen discussed, is that the "fixed" portion of the table on the ICS is 4" wider than that on the PCS, such that (on removing the left extension wing) the sliding table will be 2" further from the blade on the ICS than the PCS.

The question is whether this extra 2" (longer reach for the mitre arm, more friction from the table) has an appreciable impact on the performance of the sliding table. Ideally you would be right beside the blade, as with a slider, so the extra 2" away might matter. I can see the theoretical impairment that this could cause, but can anyone help me with their experience with the sliding crosscut table on the ICS?

I called SawStop, both sales and service, and they were not familiar with the question. It was pointed out to me that, since the sliding table can work on the ICS with the 10" extension wing on, it should be fine covering the distance to the blade with the wing off, even if that distance is 2" more than the PCS. But no one seemed to have any actual experience with the issue.

Many thanks.

[Jay Kepley]

Gordon,

First, what a fortunate situation: choosing between a ICS and a PCS! I have a PCS. I've given thought about the sliding table, but a consistent theme in reviews is that the sliding table does not have a fixed setting for a 90 degree cut (and that set up is, therefore, difficult). The smaller sliding table is $1,200. I've considered whether an MFT (or a homemade MFT) would be a good and less expensive option for crosscuts, and I believe it would. I already have a Makita track saw and track. I've thought about buying the Festool MFT top ($140) or making my own. I would need dogs of some type. Parf Dogs and the track dogs would probably run around $60. Using the grid on the MFT and the dogs, I could have perfect 90 degree cuts (and I guess certain other angles permitted by the grid). Just a thought to consider. Good luck!

[Bryan Lisowski]

To me, the SS sliding table wasn't really well thought out. If I was looking at the ICS and the sliding table, for that type of money I really would consider a real slider.

[Gordon Cameron]

Thanks Jay and Bryan for the comments about alternatives, but for me at this point it is really is down to whether the sliding crosscut table works well with the wider span of the ICS.

I suppose a question that some owners of the SawStop crosscut table might be able to answer is "Does it work as well (either ICS or PCS) with the extension wing left on the saw?" If it does, then it should be fine with the wider span of the wing-less ICS. If not, the narrower span of the PCS is a point in favour of that saw, though clearly not a critical one.

[Mike Kees]

I have zero experience with anything Sawstop. However I did have an excalibur sliding table on a Delta Unisaw,as well as experience with two sliders. A sliding table will work way better than a crosscut box. An actual sliding saw is also nicer than a sliding table. I don't think that you will notice any real difference with the Sawstop sliding table on either saw. You would notice a distinct difference if you tried out a real slider. Have you looked at Minimax Sc2's. Last year I had a quote for some tools and it came in cheaper than a PCS. I owned one for about 6 months,really nice saw. Mine was a short stroke 5' ,so you could lock the slide and rip like any other cabinet saw if you wanted to.

[Neil Gaskin]

I had a sawstop sliding table with the left extension table installed. It operated fine. Conversely, without the sliding table I found it too tight in front of the saw, it was uncomfortable to use the saw for ripping.

As as for the sliding table in general. I did not find it useful for cross cutting. I ultimately removed and sold it. Based on my experience with it I would pass and build yourself a panel sled and incra miter gauage. The sawstop sliding table was too much hassle to square and had too much slop.

[mreza Salav]

Standing back and looking at it, I would:
- either buy the ICS (it's simply a bigger/better saw) and use a sled if needed
- or put that money into a real slider.
I wouldn't let the cross-cut table be the deciding factor between the PCS or ICS.

(For the record I have a ICS, a great saw, and if I was going to buy that much money plus the table, I'd seriously consider a European slider).

[Simon MacGowen]

Standing back and looking at it, I would:
- either buy the ICS (it's simply a bigger/better saw) and use a sled if needed
- or put that money into a real slider.
I wouldn't let the cross-cut table be the deciding factor between the PCS or ICS.

(For the record I have a ICS, a great saw, and if I was going to buy that much money plus the table, I'd seriously consider a European slider).

Allow me to say that the OP needs to be clear about what he considers critical. Is the finger-saving feature a critical and mandatory feature? By the title he used, it seems sliders, and any non-SS options are out of the question. We can go on talking about other options, but not addressing his inquiry. I have only seen a video showing a slider with the SS technology which is not available in the market yet. Until that is a commercial product released, a slider simply is not part of the equation. Of course, the OP can change his mind and go for a non-SS route, including track saws, perhaps. That would be a different discussion.

And I agree the sliding table shouldn't be the determining factor between an ICS and a PCS. Having used both of them for years, I really can't tell much difference between the two in terms of cutting results (assuming you put the same or similar accessories (dust collection, mobile base, etc. in them).

Simon

[Jim Becker]

My point of view is that the 2" difference will affect some cuts and not affect some others. It's just an amplification of the primary difference between a sliding mechanism attached to a cabinet saw vs how a "true" sliding table saw is configured with the sliding wagon right up to the blade. The bottom line will be "what will you be cutting" and how often? How close the fence on the sliding table (assuming there is one) can get to the blade is also a factor, IMHO, but at that point for crosscutting short things, there's little or no difference from a well tuned miter gage aside from potentially a little more stability and consistency.

[mreza Salav]

Allow me to say that the OP needs to be clear about what he considers critical. Is the finger-saving feature a critical and mandatory feature? By the title he used, it seems sliders, and any non-SS options are out of the question. We can go on talking about other options, but not addressing his inquiry. I have only seen a video showing a slider with the SS technology which is not available in the market yet. Until that is a commercial product released, a slider simply is not part of the equation. Of course, the OP can change his mind and go for a non-SS route, including track saws, perhaps. That would be a different discussion.

And I agree the sliding table shouldn't be the determining factor between an ICS and a PCS. Having used both of them for years, I really can't tell much difference between the two in terms of cutting results (assuming you put the same or similar accessories (dust collection, mobile base, etc. in them).

Simon

I suppose the forum is to express what each of us think about the situation on hand. I expressed "my" opinion that sliding-attachment shouldn't really be a deciding factor between the two saws. You are already not getting a true slider, so might as well just get the better saw between the two. If one wants a true sliding action (and that small difference matters) then should opt for a true sliding table saw.
I

[Gordon Cameron]

Thanks Simon, for noting my question.

I might ultimately go for a slider, but in 6 days SS is doing a huge price increase in Canada, so I have to configure my best SS outfit now and see how it measures up.

Of course, the relative performance of the sliding table (as between the ICS and PCS) will not be the deciding factor, it is just one of the things that I had seen others remark on in the specs, and I wondered if anyone had noticed an actual difference in performance.

The SS with the sliding table will not be a real slider, that is clear. But the thing I would hope that it would give (that a mitre gauge or a crosscut sled will not) is support for wide material far in front of the blade.

I have noted from various reviews that the sliding table is not a hit with some users, but others seem to like it, so I am willing to give it a try. If it doesn't suit me, I will pass it on.

Many thanks to all for the input.

[Jim Becker]

Given that 2" isn't hugely material to the original question, if you can afford the "bigger, better" saw...

[Rod Sheridan]

Thanks Simon, for noting my question.

I might ultimately go for a slider, but in 6 days SS is doing a huge price increase in Canada, so I have to configure my best SS outfit now and see how it measures up.

Of course, the relative performance of the sliding table (as between the ICS and PCS) will not be the deciding factor, it is just one of the things that I had seen others remark on in the specs, and I wondered if anyone had noticed an actual difference in performance.

The SS with the sliding table will not be a real slider, that is clear. But the thing I would hope that it would give (that a mitre gauge or a crosscut sled will not) is support for wide material far in front of the blade.

I have noted from various reviews that the sliding table is not a hit with some users, but others seem to like it, so I am willing to give it a try. If it doesn't suit me, I will pass it on.

Many thanks to all for the input.

Hi Gordon, my main issues with the sliding table versus a Euro/Format style slider are the distance from the sliding table, and the footprint/ergonomics issue.

I purchased a small Euro slider with a 49" crosscut capacity. It has the ergonomics of a cabinet saw, no protrusion for the sliding table base or large leg assembly such as the SS sliding table. I have the outrigger for the saw, normally it's not on the saw, so the saw is very compact.

When I need the outrigger it takes 1 minute with no tools to put it on the saw and have full capability.

The issue of the sliding table not next to the blade is a huge issue. On a format saw you can straight line rip, or clamp small piece directly to the slider, cut odd shaped pieces or very small pieces using a Fritz und Franz jig.

I really think you will regret spending the money on the Saw Stop, as you'll be able to get a small Format saw for the same money................Regards, Rod.