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Thread: 3 phase coverter or VFD?

  1. #1

    3 phase coverter or VFD?

    Hi, this is my first thread on here so thanks in advance for any help.
    So I just bought a Delta 43-437 Shaper with a Steff 2034 1hp 3 phase power feed. My shop doesn't have 3 phase so I was hoping some of you experts here could help me pick out a phase converter or VFD to run just the power feeder. I'm hoping to keep the price down, under 200 would be nice.
    I have a picture of the motor tag but not sure how to post pics yet.
    Thanks, Neil

  2. #2
    I'd definitely go with the VFD.

    Mike
    Last edited by Mike Henderson; 01-22-2019 at 8:12 PM.
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Blodgett View Post
    Hi, this is my first thread on here so thanks in advance for any help.
    So I just bought a Delta 43-437 Shaper with a Steff 2034 1hp 3 phase power feed. My shop doesn't have 3 phase so I was hoping some of you experts here could help me pick out a phase converter or VFD to run just the power feeder. I'm hoping to keep the price down, under 200 would be nice.
    I have a picture of the motor tag but not sure how to post pics yet.
    Thanks, Neil
    You need to send Jack Forsberg a PM. He'll custom build you a VFD and walk you through setting it up.
    -Lud

  4. #4
    Buy a Fuji from Wolfe automation. Great drives, great prices.

    Jack does not build the drive, but ok.

  5. #5
    Last month I found a big planer for the right price, but it was 3 phase. I also do not have 3 phase power in my shop. I called several different companies regarding a phase converter vs. VFD. It sounded like the phase converter was probably a little more thirsty than what I wanted, meaning aside from the high initial cost it would continue to bang on my bank account just from use.
    The company I talked to about the VFD was very fair and knowledgeable...I was under the impression there was no downside to a VFD and given the current way everyone rave about them surely this was the way to go. He said I could look forward to getting about 4 to 5 years use out of a VFD and then it would "burn itself out". That was unacceptable to me because the one I needed would have cost over $750.00. VFD's get expensive when the horsepower goes up. The motor was rated at 5hp and he suggested a 7.5 VFD. He did say that a VFD was way more economical to run that a phase converter.
    If you only need a 1hp then maybe a VFD is feasible. I opted to wait a few weeks and the single phase planer I wanted came up for sale.

  6. #6
    Pretty cheap and simple to buy a 1HP VFD: https://www.factorymation.com/FM50-101-C

    Some people make VFDs seem unnecessarily complex and profit from the idea of "custom built" VFDs, but that's beyond silly...

  7. #7
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    I have (at least) seven VFDs running machines in my shop. Almost all of them are TECOs from Factorymation. I don't baby them, put them in special enclosures, etc, I just run them. Many of them are energized 24/7 and I'm pretty sure quite a few of them are over 7 years old. A 1 HP VFD from Factorymation will work fine and the added advantage is you can really fine tune the speed with it.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Cav View Post
    I have (at least) seven VFDs running machines in my shop. Almost all of them are TECOs from Factorymation. I don't baby them, put them in special enclosures, etc, I just run them. Many of them are energized 24/7 and I'm pretty sure quite a few of them are over 7 years old. A 1 HP VFD from Factorymation will work fine and the added advantage is you can really fine tune the speed with it.
    Curious about the thought process of buying at least 7 VFDs versus one rotary phase convertor to a 3 phase breaker box and hardwiring the shop.

  9. #9
    20190122_164529.jpg
    Thanks for all the responses! Sounds like VFD is the way to go. I was hoping I could get one that runs on 120v input but the motor needs 440v. Do they make vfd's that go from 120-440? And do I get one rated for 1HP or a little bigger. Thanks for the help, Im a wicked noob at this 3 phase stuff.
    -Neil

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Coers View Post
    Curious about the thought process of buying at least 7 VFDs versus one rotary phase convertor to a 3 phase breaker box and hardwiring the shop.
    Richard, if all you need is "sort of close" 3 phase power, an inexpensive converter can be the way to go.

    If you need accurate 3 phase power then it's another step in price for a true 3 phase output converter.

    A VFD gives you advantages that a converter doesn't, soft start, variable speed, and braking, depending upon your application those can be very important features.

    When I built my band mill, I went with a 3 phase motor and VFD for weight and portability considerations......Diann's lathe has a VFD, variable speed and soft start are really nice......Rod.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Blodgett View Post
    20190122_164529.jpg
    Thanks for all the responses! Sounds like VFD is the way to go. I was hoping I could get one that runs on 120v input but the motor needs 440v. Do they make vfd's that go from 120-440? And do I get one rated for 1HP or a little bigger. Thanks for the help, Im a wicked noob at this 3 phase stuff.
    -Neil
    No, you can't get a VFD that converts 120 volts to 480 volts.

    Your best bet would be to sell the stock feeder and buy a single phase unit, in that size they will be available in 120 or 240 volt input.

    If you really want to use your stock feeder you would need a 3 phase auto transformer with a 240/480 ratio rated at 1 KVA, which could be connected between your VFD and stock feeder motor.

    regards, Rod.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Friedrichs View Post
    Pretty cheap and simple to buy a 1HP VFD: https://www.factorymation.com/FM50-101-C

    Some people make VFDs seem unnecessarily complex and profit from the idea of "custom built" VFDs, but that's beyond silly...
    Will that vfd you linked work with my 1hp 440v motor?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Sheridan View Post
    No, you can't get a VFD that converts 120 volts to 480 volts.

    Your best bet would be to sell the stock feeder and buy a single phase unit, in that size they will be available in 120 or 240 volt input.

    If you really want to use your stock feeder you would need a 3 phase auto transformer with a 240/480 ratio rated at 1 KVA, which could be connected between your VFD and stock feeder motor.

    regards, Rod.
    Dont want to be a pain, but are there vfd's that go from 220 to 440? I would really like to make this work but that transformer plus vfd sounds way too complicated.

  14. #14
    You will need a transformer no matter if on single phase side or 3phase side.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Blodgett View Post
    Will that vfd you linked work with my 1hp 440v motor?
    Sorry, no. I don't know of any VFDs that will do 120->460. I'm not even sure you could find one that does 240->460.

    As Rod said, you could use a 120->240 VFD (like the one I linked), then a transformer that would do 240->460 (here's an example: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Transformer...fV-i:rk:5:pf:0)

    But at that cost, it's almost certainly cheaper to buy a different feeder and sell the one you have. Or, you could even buy a new 1-phase, 120V motor for your feeder for cheaper than this...

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