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Thread: Bosch Glide or Festool Kapex..how bad is the Bosch?

  1. #16
    I have run bosch siders (non glide) for years on job sites and have had my hands on both the Kapex and the glide (friend bought the 12" glide). Its hands down the glide for me if its between the two. All sliders with a long reach have flexure issues. Once you get use to it you can use it to your advantage and eliminate it when needed. The Kapex has much more flexure at full travel in my experience and the glide is pretty rigid but anything with that much mass at that amount of extension/leverage is going to have flexure unless it weighs a thousand pounds.

    The big issue in these comparisons with regards to a chop saw is to honestly define the capacity you actually need. People think well just get the biggest so I will have it if I need it but if the vast majority of the work you will cut doesnt need the capacity of a 12" slider go to the 10". If you dont need that capacity go to a non-slider that will be more rigid. And if you want the best go with the Omga (search recent long thread about them).

    For the money I cant see going wrong with the glide and as already mentioned no slider is going to be phenomenal at dust collection.
    Sometimes I just want to look at pretty pictures,... Thats when I go to the Turners Forum

  2. #17
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    I consider all SCMS's as for carpentry/trim work or cutting large pieces to manageable size. None that I have seen/used is as accurate as a sled on a table saw for fine woodworking.
    I've used Kapex and is good for doing trim work.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cory Newman View Post
    Timely thread, I'm evaluating the two as well. I do have a vintage radial arm saw, but i keep it set at 90 degrees, I can't imagine getting accurate miters with it.
    Not to hijack this thread, buy you should be able to get very accurate miters with a RAS with no more setup required than for a typical miter saw. Perhaps you should spend a little time going through the manual on how to calibrate it.

    I know machine guys want to get perfect cuts off their machines, but a hand plane and shooting board is a far better way to bring a workpiece to final length and angle, whether 90į, 45į, whatever, when it really matters. In the old days this was pretty much the only way to do it. With the advent of high precision machines the practice has largely gone away but never exceed it in quality. And expecting a machine designed for trim carpenters to consistently produce furniture quality cuts is asking more than what those machines are truly capable of, at any price.

    John

  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by mreza Salav View Post
    I consider all SCMS's as for carpentry/trim work or cutting large pieces to manageable size. None that I have seen/used is as accurate as a sled on a table saw for fine woodworking.
    I've used Kapex and is good for doing trim work.
    Mmmm, my Dewalt DW780, carefully tuned and with a 100T blade, produces crosscuts for fine woodworking that simply don't need any more work. It's rather breathtaking.

    For cutting large pieces to size I just use a hand saw.

  5. #20
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    I owned a 12" Makita SCMS for quite a while (sold it for the same space issues you mentioned) and now own a Bosch 12" Glide. I haven't used the Bosch much yet but in setting it up and making a few cuts I don't think it has much slop at all - in fact, none that I could detect by feel or eye. The handle / trigger is designed so that you pull straight down so, if you're careful, you won't put much side-to-side pressure on it. I've never touched a Kapex, so I can't comment on that.

    Here is a video of a guy making some nice cuts using a Bosch SCMS slider (not glide). Note the technique he uses to make sure he gets the cut he wants.

    https://youtu.be/MZJk4e7WPGE?t=1045

    I've used a 2000-era Craftsman SCMS to make plenty of perfect returns on molding, perfect outside corners, etc. With patience, tuning, and good technique, an SCMS can do very good work.

    I will also second the shooting board suggestion. You really can't do better than this for fine-tuning.


  6. #21
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    I do not own a Kapex, I do own several other Festool tools though. If you spend a little time over on FOG, it appears the Kapex has been one of the more problematic offers from Festool. Bevel drift and burned armatures are among the issues owners have had. Maybe they have ironed out the problems, but I would make sure before I plunked down that cash. Not trying to start a flame here, I repeat I do not own a Kapex.

  7. #22
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    I'll just add to what you said about bad reviews on Miter Saws.

    For a few years I wanted to upgrade to a new sliding compound miter saw. I liked the Ridigid 12" a lot . Loved the large table but reviews were horrible. Did not cut square, Ridgid refuses to own up to a defect in the design Etc........ All from pros who have used miter saws for 25 years and know what they are talking about etc...... Put the saw purchase on hold for 2 or 3 years to decide on another saw but could not get past liking the Ridgid.

    Walking into Home Depot one night and has a sale on the saw I could not pass up. I thought HD is very good about returns so Ill take a chance.
    I pushed that saw hard for a few nights in the work shop trying to see if it was any good. Anything not right and it was going back.
    To make a long story short. That saw has turned out to be a perfect saw for me, It cuts square and cuts are glass smooth with the stock blade. My opinion people were just not letting the saw do the work and ramming the blade through the wood.

    If you find a saw you like, give it a chance in your shop and don't be so quick to judge it by reviews.

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    "Remember back in the day, when things were made by hand, and people took pride in their work?"
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  8. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Grider View Post
    I do not own a Kapex, I do own several other Festool tools though. If you spend a little time over on FOG, it appears the Kapex has been one of the more problematic offers from Festool. Bevel drift and burned armatures are among the issues owners have had. Maybe they have ironed out the problems, but I would make sure before I plunked down that cash. Not trying to start a flame here, I repeat I do not own a Kapex.
    That rings true given some of the youtube video reviews I've seen of it. The thing that really stood out is how flimsy it was, lots of plastic.

    That said, I have lots of Festool, sanders, routers, track saw etc and I've been very pleased with them. You only cry once. At least so far. The FWW review of the sanders was absurd, they didn't even use the right sandpaper.

  9. #24
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    I've been using the 12" Bosch Glide for maybe 5 years now. Built my shop and another building with it and use it for general crosscuts in the shop. I've had several other miter saws and I like this the most. I don't build fine furniture but it's always made accurate cuts.

    JKJ

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by John TenEyck View Post
    Not to hijack this thread, buy you should be able to get very accurate miters with a RAS with no more setup required than for a typical miter saw. Perhaps you should spend a little time going through the manual on how to calibrate it.

    I know machine guys want to get perfect cuts off their machines, but a hand plane and shooting board is a far better way to bring a workpiece to final length and angle, whether 90į, 45į, whatever, when it really matters. In the old days this was pretty much the only way to do it. With the advent of high precision machines the practice has largely gone away but never exceed it in quality. And expecting a machine designed for trim carpenters to consistently produce furniture quality cuts is asking more than what those machines are truly capable of, at any price.

    John
    I agree with this, if there is one thing I’ve learned, a SCMS is not capable of really accurate cuts.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  11. #26
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    If you've read any of my posts on miter saws you'll know I'm highly biased towards Dewalt. Set them up once and they stay there. My 780XPS gets used everyday. I've had it for 7 years. I can cut anything as accurate as a TS sled, but I have $180 blade on it from Carbide Processors. Stays sharp for...ev..er. XPS is the only way to go for sighting in the cut line.

    I don't advocate the 780 for hobbyist use because of the cost and how often are you needing 14" crosscut capability? For me? Very often. Buy a 716XPS or 717XPS, set it up properly. Buy a good blade. Smile every time you use it.
    -Lud

  12. #27
    Well gents, I bought the Kapex with some extension wings. Iím still sore, those bastards didnít even use lube.

    I digress. I went to put my hands on both saws along with the competitors such as the dws780 and dws716. No way in hell would I buy the Bosch Glide. That arm is buttery smooth but has so much damn play. When I played with the Dewalts next to it I had to use 2-3 times as much force to get half of the deflection. It was just as bad retracted as it was extended. Can you cut dead square with it? Probably. Would I rather just get a better design and exponentially increase my odds of getting a good cut? Yuuup.

    Honestly, even though the dewalt was rough around the edges..if it didnít take up so much space I absolutely would have bought the DWS780. The deflection was slightly worse than the festool saw but not bad at all.

    All in all, I hate that I spent $2k on this bullshit but I would do it again given the same choices.

  13. #28
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    I owe the Bosch and really like it. Have no accuracy issues. And now $200 or so cheaper than what I paided.

  14. #29
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    I have a number of Miter Saws personally and in 3 different businesses. They all have good/bad points.
    A friend decided he wanted the Bosch Glide when they first came out so I took him to a Bosch event where they had incredible introduction pricing. We opened the entire stack trying to find one worth buying. I think they finally solved the table issues those all had. I looked at them after that and started playing with them and realized that mechanism is designed to be cute but is pretty much a disaster from an engineering standpoint. They flex and will not age well at all. It doesn't really fit many needs well at all. Too heavy to haul around, no laser, poor dust collection, not very accurate. Then Bosch really screwed up with the 10" Glide that has the glide mechanism made incorrectly so the blade move left/right as you move it in/out. So they both seem like rough construction saws for builders but those are generally hauled around.

    I'm certainly not anti-Bosch as I have a Bosch 10" CMS and enough Bosch cases full of stuff I can make two 6' stacks of cases. At least a dozen corded/cordless tools.

    I had a heavily used Kapex in a shop and was impressed enough I bought one personally to replace my Makita LSxx14 saw, which was very accurate but took up too much depth and made incredible dust. The later Makita started with new and different issues but it seems they are working back toward the accuracy with the xx19 series saws. See the current thread on that.
    My Kapex has some great features but not sure I would pay current pricing for one. I paid $1100 including two extension wings. I do feel they sacrificed flex for extreme light weight. The magnesium instead of aluminum adds too much cost for the benefit. The dust collection and the precise variable speed were the deciding factors for me with carbon fiber, composite sheets, plastics, etc.
    I still use an early 12" Ridgid non-slider with excellent dust collection as my default saw. It is as tight to a wall as the Kapex.
    Think people get all tied up in one saw for everything and end up with sliders, which will always compromise size, weight, accuracy, etc.
    Last edited by Greg R Bradley; 01-23-2019 at 2:56 PM.

  15. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg R Bradley View Post
    I have a number of Miter Saws personally and in 3 different businesses.
    Using a laser on any consumer level saw with any expectation of precision is an exercise in futility. I made dozens of miter test cuts on a Kapex and it was simple to sweeten-them-in by nearly a half degree with user influence. Thats not a 1500 dollar saw in my world. I have always used that to my advantage in the field and honestly never found an SCMS that I couldnt work some magic with based on a little user english. There is just too much moment in the arm of them all which is why someone who needs true accuracy doesnt use sliders in the first place. In the field you need to work a little magic to get done fast.

    Of all the construction grade saws Ive had the chance to play with (which the Kapex is included in) the Bosch has been the best across the board with an exemption for Dewalt. The hard part with someone going in and "putting their hands" on any tool is that you have no idea if it had any setup, was it a beater, a return, etc.. The only saw Ive given an exemption to, because I know a bunch who love them, is the Dewalt. I came up in the trade when Dewalt first came on line as the bastard child of the black and decker homogenization (which was sad) and they made some seriously crap tools initially. I ran an underpowered Dewalt SCMS that a friend bought that could barely get itself up to speed. Im sure they are not the same tool now.

    The hard part is that Festool has to lump the Kapex in with the construction grade saws and for the price it shouldnt be in that category but is performance and being so drastically underpowered lands it there. It may well be down to the old fact that the euro-folks just treat there stuff better. I could never see myself chucking a Kapex in the back of a truck or trailer for a bouncy ride home and living under a tarp in the rain for the night but any of the other contenders would.
    Last edited by Mark Bolton; 01-23-2019 at 3:47 PM.
    Sometimes I just want to look at pretty pictures,... Thats when I go to the Turners Forum

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