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Thread: Cab door question for you pros

  1. #1

    Cab door question for you pros

    Application: 1/4" overlay doors, frameless cabs 5/8" thick (uppers), Blumotion hinges.

    I've always started with inside measurement +1" for side by side doors, which accounting for door gaps, leaves a little under 1/4" space between hinge sides.

    Also, has anyone been able to interpret the Blum installation specs? I thought I knew what I was doing til I looked at that. LOL

  2. #2
    The link looks like adjustment versus install. Which hinges did you use?

    Mike Tagge

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
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    San Francisco, CA
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    8,368
    I've installed lots of doors with Blum hinges, and I'd be glad to help, but I don't understand what you're describing. Could you post a sketch?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Napa Valley, CA
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    If I understand you, you're using 5/8" cabinet sides and 1/4" overlay hinges (which hinge and which mounting plate? There is a whole range of overlay possibilities with different combinations of hinges/plates/bore location)

    If so, then making the door 1" wider than the interior dimension of the carcase is too much. (1" minus 1/4 overlay leaves 3/4" at the "knob side" -- which is more than your carcase side. You want the door edge to be shy of the carcase outside edge, not extending beyond it.

    If these hinges are new to you, I highly recommend you do a small mock-up with scrap material.

  5. #5
    My thought was hes using 5/8 sides and adding an inch to the interior opening to leave 1/4" between an adjacent door (basically a 1/2" overlay).
    Sometimes I just want to look at pretty pictures,... Thats when I go to the Turners Forum

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Bolton View Post
    My thought was hes using 5/8 sides and adding an inch to the interior opening to leave 1/4" between an adjacent door (basically a 1/2" overlay).
    Maybe. But he says 1/4" overlay. And if that's the hinge side, what's happening at the pull side? Or does he have two doors in one cabinet opening? I'm confused.

  7. #7
    Opening pair, add 3/8, divide by two
    Opening single, add 1/2" to opening

    This is from memory, so there's that...
    Straight arm hinge, with a 9mm plate should get you a 1/4" overlay. 21.5mm drill distance.

    I think you could do a half crank and a 3mm plate and get there too.

  8. #8
    Hey guys thanks for responding. Sorry for the confusion. I think I've got it figured out.

    Correct if wrong: Twin/partial overlays w/ 1/8" (3mm) reveals --> 1/2 crank hinge 071B3650/plate 175H90 (back to back doors application).

    End panel doors (1/2" overlay) for end panels --> straight arm hinge B071B3550/plate 175H710.

    Jerry the formula is based on IM + 5/8 + 5/8 - 1. This will give a 1/8 reveal both sides. (Not taking into account gap on twin doors).

    Can't figure out what door protrusion (P) and side arm protrusion (P) relate to or does it matter?

    I'm doing a kitchen reface & upgrading hinges to soft close. I think the existing hinges are not correct. It looks like they are all straight arm hinges. Most of the adjustments are cranked all the way down.

    All the plates look to be 0mm.

  9. #9
    Remember bore distance affects overlay and there is some room to bore things differently.

    Do test pieces.

  10. #10
    For your 1/2" overlay, I know that a straight arm and a 3mm drilled at 22.5 mm is correct.

    That's why I said 9mm plate for the others since that will push the hinge into the opening ~1/4". 1/4"=6.35 mm, close enough with adjustment.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
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    219
    Door protrusion has to do with lateral movement. The outside edge of your door and how far it moves when hinge is opened.

  12. #12
    Robert - Still having a bit of trouble trying to follow exactly what you are doing. I'll take a stab at a solution using what I think you are doing and then if I'm off, hopefully you can figure out how to make the proper adjustment.

    Blum hinges, you are doing the 110 with soft close. I use these pretty much for everything. You mention 5/8 cabinets, I'm assuming these are frameless in this example. You say side by side doors, so I'm assuming two complete boxes added side by side next to each other (with two 5/8 walls) versus a divider (one 5/8 side shared with two doors).

    Reveals- This is important when you are doing a divider type of door, where two doors operate off of a shared panel. In this case 5/8" is approx. 16mm. If you want a 3mm gap between the doors, you will need the following formula to arrive at your reveal for proper hinge selection: (Wall thickness - gap) /2 = reveal. Take that reveal and consult the table for proper hinge and bore pattern. Hypothetically for your case I would think you want a 3mm gap. So (16-3)/2 = 6.5 overlay. For this you would use 71b3650 / half cranked, with a 0 plate, and bore of 5 on the door. Blum calculates this on the chart in the middle for the half cranked hinges in the table. W = 16, reveal = 3, which then goes down to the boring distance of 5. For shared doors, you will need to make sure that the middle gap is appropriate and preferably equal to the reveal on the side. You can figure that out by measuring the door width and comparing to total opening. I would probably work outwards from the middle if you have the doors already built and set your middle gap at 3mm and figure out how much of a reveal that means on the outside. For example, you have a 30in / 762mm opening. To get a 3mm gap on all sides (assuming shared panels on both sides) your doors need to be ((width/2)+(overlay) - (1/2 of center gap)). ((762/2)+6.5-1.5)=386mm

    For an application with doubled sides ie butted cabinets, or a single door on a panel say for the end, you need a bigger overlay. For a 16mm/5/8 side and a 3mm reveal, you need an overlay of 13mm (panel thickness minus reveal / 16-3). On the table, the closest overlay available is 14mm which is using a straight arm hinge (71b3550), a 0 plate, and 3mm bore distance on the door.

    The other things you mention such as protrusion, height etc are tweaks after you install the door to get everything dial in. Hinges almost never go on perfectly but the adjustments make alignment quite easy. Protrusion will help get doors flat on the frame and help with a little warp if present, height can be moved if you get the adjustable cam clip plates, and the last one moves the door to allow you to angle by moving the door either closer or further from the cabinet side. This helps with getting a nice gap in the center.

    Hopefully this makes sense.
    Mike

  13. #13
    Do yourself a MAJOR favor... **** can Blum and find yourself a good Salice rep.. Keep them on speed dial. They will answer your call every time you have a problem (as long as your not a total nuisance but will likely still answer) and walk you through your hinge selection, whats wrong with your hinge selection, and advise you what your proper hinge selection should be, in difficult situations. Blum has got the hobby world drunk on their crap (great for them) but even with them shipping samples we have always stuck with Salice and Grass. Far more refined product, and WAY more support.

    If your having to ask hinge geometry questions on a forum because you have no manufacturer support, you have the wrong manufacturer.
    Sometimes I just want to look at pretty pictures,... Thats when I go to the Turners Forum

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