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Thread: Do we all 'HAVE' to have the ideal latest/greatest tool?

  1. #46
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    I suspect there are woodworkers and tool collectors. I'm a bit of both. Having a good tool makes me feel good, even if I forget that I have it...

    As I've become more of a woodworker, I find that I don't really have any more tools that I want to buy.

    Mike

  2. #47
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    This is a really interesting thread with many different perspectives and I agree with many of them. Regardless of whether wood working is a career or done for pleasure, it makes little sense to buy a tool that cannot produce good results. It is bad business for the professional and frustrating for the hobbyist (as well as the professional) and, at worse, unsafe.

    Tool purchases often come down to priorities, which differ depending on your perspective. `Time is money’ is appropriate for the professional, which may eliminate from consideration older tools that require refurbishing or lower quality tools that may fail with higher frequency. Refurbishing tools for those with more time and buying lower quality tools that may be used infrequently are definitely reasonable choices. The triangle was mentioned earlier and it reminded me of an old project management adage; time, cost, and quality - pick any two.

    I am a DIYer and often justify new tools through the ‘savings’ of doing it myself. This trade off works for me as I enjoy time in the workshop. I bought a miter saw with the labor savings of installing a patio sliding door myself (and with the help of my wife. I am not sure what she got out of the deal). I upgraded a Ridgid contractor saw with a Professional Sawstop tablesaw when I had the money because of the safety feature that was valuable to me. I debated long and hard about the money for a Festool Domino but bought it despite the high cost because it was so easy to put loose tennons exactly where I wanted and made my joinery easier and faster. I have no regrets with my choices but realize that others may make different ones.

    I would suggest that you spend enough money to maximize your fun but no more.

    Tom

  3. #48
    When I was building houses, could not afford the machines or even the shop I now have, would have built the cabinets while the drywallers were at their work, although did on a few jobs. At that time, many customers believed custom cabinets were higher quality than manufactured cabinets, even though the joinery and hardware were better with the manufactured ones. Now I have a great shop, and although don't charge for much work, enjoy building things more than when I was a pro, probably just because of the lack of pressure. Find I just enjoy work, and having good equipment and tools just seem to be a necessity.

  4. #49
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    I was asked this this past summer by a youngster

    My advice if you are just starting out:

    Don't start the process by buy any tools!

    1. Find something your want to build for yourself or a family member. Make sure it is a simple piece that can be built out of premilled pine from the BORG.

    2. Search youtube for building projects similar to it and see what tools they use.

    3. Figure out the dimensions of the project and how many pine boards you think you need and double it.
    4. Go to the store (HF) with no more than $100 and pick out the basic tools. If you are unsure, come by and pick me up and I will go with you and help you pick what you really need to build the project and not what you think you need.
    5. Then just start building it on your own. If you get stuck, call me, I will give advice but I won't do any of the work.
    6. When you finish the project and find you really enjoyed it then hang in there and just buy the tools as you need them. If you found it enjoyable but frustating, then spend some time on YT or take a class. If you didn't enjoy it, you are only out a little money and can find someone to pass the tools onto.
    If you still going strong in a year, then you can look at buying better long term tools.

    That's how I started.
    Last edited by Rob Damon; 01-09-2019 at 10:00 AM.

  5. #50
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    I try to keep in mind that the cost of a tool is not how much I pay for it, but (how much I pay for it - what I could quickly sell it for). The only monetary loss is the difference, and expensive/quality tools tend to hold their value better than cheap alternatives.

  6. #51
    When I was young the budget only allowed buying the Craftsman 'special purchase' tools when they had additional markdowns.
    That was simply the only thing I could afford and I had to be patient until those had additional markdowns.
    I did a lot of work on the house with those tools.
    40 years later I am still not made out of money, but my ideas about what constitutes a good tool have changed and I can choose some things just because I want them.
    Since I am just a hobbyist / DIYer I don't typically buy top of the line tools / machines, but I do try to buy things that are easy to use and work the way they are supposed to work.
    Typically I don't offer up much buying advice but on occasion if I have experience with a tool being asked about I will chime in on the merits or issues I have personally experienced.
    The internet can be a terrific source of information or a terrible source of information.
    People answering questions on Amazon (and other sites) baffle me.....
    Q: Does this come with a three prong plug ?
    A #1-5: Yes this has a 3 prong plug.
    A #6&7: No this has a 2 prong plug.
    Its only natural for people to recommend tools and machines that they like.
    For those of us that have some mileage in the rear view mirror I think it's also natural to encourage others to try to spend just a little more (maybe at times a lot more) to avoid frustrations that were experienced in the past.

  7. #52
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    This observation may be a little off topic but I think it is interesting. I had a new house and shop built last summer and I noticed that without exception, my tools were of better quality than those of the people making a living with them. What does that say about who needs the best tools?

  8. #53
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    Mar 2018
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    Piercefield, NY
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    I've been in different places on the spectrum of tool buying. When I was 13 or 14 I bought a Skil jigsaw and a Dremel tool brand new, and I still have and use them. I also bought a 1/4 sheet palm sander which I quickly found to be pretty much useless. From then till I was 31 I didn't buy any new power tools, and not many new hand tools. 4 years ago I got an 18" Jet bandsaw at an auction in my little town for $320. I had been wanting a bigger bandsaw for years but got by without it till the right deal came along. I bought all of my tools at auctions or off Craigslist and sold tools on Craigslist that I had outgrown or had bought to resell at auctions.

    Then in late 2017 I spent $600+ on a ring roller. It saves me a lot of time on a repetitive task, and makes neater brass circles than I could make by hand. My reasoning was that I could make 1/8x1/2" banjo tension hoops by hand, but I wanted to try making tone hoops and those required 3/16" brass, which was a lot harder to bend by hand. To buy a Whyte Laydie type tone ring is $120-150 depending on the supplier, and the brass is $30 or less, so I figured once I had made 6 or 7 tone rings I would have paid for the roller and it should be stout enough to last the rest of my life for the kind of work I do. Last spring I bought a new SuperMax drum sander because I had been watching for a used one for a couple of years and not finding the deal I wanted. I could have gotten a Grizzly for less, but the SuperMax had better reviews. I decided to spend the money since my business had gotten busy enough to justify it, and I am glad I did. Also buying the little Rikon 10-305 to partner with my bigger bandsaw was a good thing, it only cost me around $200 and both these tools have saved untold hours already and made it easier to make a higher quality product.

    I still wouldn't buy new tools for jobs that were not something I make money at, but I do spend money on used tools for them. I had to buy a heavier duty and variable speed router to build a wood strip canoe since my ancient Craftsman router sounded like it was about to fly apart with the big cove and bead bits. I have since used that router for money-making work, but the canoe bit set that I paid $30 for has only been used twice, once for each canoe I made. I hope to use them again when I have time.
    Zach
    Last edited by Zachary Hoyt; 01-09-2019 at 8:56 PM.

  9. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Art Mann View Post
    This observation may be a little off topic but I think it is interesting. I had a new house and shop built last summer and I noticed that without exception, my tools were of better quality than those of the people making a living with them. What does that say about who needs the best tools?
    Same here. When we had a new roof put on almost 2 years ago now, the roofing crew had vastly inferior tools to what I had. Their portable compressor struggled to keep up with them so I dragged out some lines from my big 80-gallon IR and let them hook up and they almost went crazy. They had what they could get by with. I have a lot more, in some situations, than I could ever use. I think far too many people go the extreme overkill route, just because they think they have to have the best, even if the best isn't really that worthwhile.

  10. #55
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    When I had our current house and shop built, I also observed that my tools were better than what the contractor’s crews had or what the contractor provided and there was a reason why.

    I saw the crews dragging drills and circular saws around by the power cord, using a job site table saw with a dull blade and the saw just about thrown into the trailer at the end of the day, underpowered generator, batteries tossed around and if it dropped, the attitude was “it’s the boss’ not mine”, etc. One day I talked to the foreman and he said the reason for El Cheapo – handyman - Harbor Freight etc., is that most workers do not care about a tool if they have not paid for it, and if it is a good tool, it is often ”lost or misplaced” on the job site never to be found. Since then I have heard the same from others who work in the building trades.

  11. #56
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    Don't forget, there is a whole host of vintage tools that you also 'have' to buy, better get on with it....but please do leave all the ones I want.

    Thanks ahead of time.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  12. #57
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    May 2014
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    Alberta
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    As a professional carpenter for the last 27 years who now has a cabinet shop my perspective is different. All my tools are quality,I do not have time for cheap crap. No I do not have a sliding tablesaw in my work trailer ,but there is no harbor freight either. My 'jobsite ' t.s. is a Delta contractor saw on a custom base with 6'' castors and a 32'' biesmeyer fence. It was cheaper than the 'jobsite' saws like bosch with stand, and way better. I do quality work,period .Whether framing or in my shop and personally it is way more economical (timewise and money) to do my work with decent or great tools. YMMV. I feel incredibly blessed to have the machinery I do in my shop and would never suggest that what I have is necessary for everyone,it took me the whole 27 years and selling an asset in my business to do it. Everyone who enjoys woodworking has to work out their path and do it with whatever they have available to them. I really enjoy this forum and all the various people on it,and all of their perspectives. So to answer the O.P. 's original question ,no we do not all have to have the latest/greatest tool .

  13. #58
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    I think the main factor is time and skill. A very skilled person with a dull saw and chisel will still produce a result better than an inexperienced person with thousands of dollars worth of machinery.

    Further, two people of equal skill will produce equal results with different quality of tools. The difference is how long it will take.

    I am considering people doing this for a hobby rather than for a livelyhood. If it’s a business priority changes.


    I feel there is a great deal of retail mania. However, I will acknowledge that if splurging $1200 for a festiool sander and vacuum was pocket change with no effect on the rest of my life, I’d do things like that weekly. There seems to be an attitude that you can’t build a certain thing or get a certain result without buying a certain tool. Let’s not forget that the wood workers of past made very high quality furniture with far less. Granted it probably took longer and took far more skill. So, do you want to collect exspensive tools or spend time collecting skill?

    I had had my share of experience with bad tools and at a certain point the frustration of trying to deal with a truly bad tool is not worth any amount of time or money. But the internet, marketing, etc.. have really confused ideas of what is reasonable.

  14. #59
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    "I had had my share of experience with bad tools and at a certain point the frustration of trying to deal with a truly bad tool is not worth any amount of time or money. But the internet, marketing, etc.. have really confused ideas of what is reasonable."
    --Zac Wingert

    BINGO!

  15. #60
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    Apr 2008
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    Edmonton, Canada
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    I am a hobbyist with a decent collection of tools that have collected/upgraded over the last 13 years or so. I started with furniture for our house and then a few years ago when we were building our house
    (documented here: https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....ing&highlight=) I did a lot of work for the house. I built the 31 interior doors out of solid maple (documented in 3 threads below):

    https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....ors&highlight=
    https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....ors&highlight=
    https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....ors&highlight=

    Built a stave core Mahogany 2.25" thick door:

    https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....529&highlight=

    Built lots of trim work

    https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....mns&highlight=
    https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....ing&highlight=

    Built the railing for the house

    https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....sts&highlight=

    And the cabinets:

    All with my tools which are by no means industrial grade; all the doors were made on my table saw and using a router (have a small shaper but was easier to use my router).
    I believe in getting good tools to get the job done but it's been a long since I purchased a tool (not that I have the best ones, but I think I can do everything with what I already have. It might take a bit longer (so bit it as I'm not a business).
    When doing the work for my own house it took me about 1.5 years to do all those work (while I had my full time job as well). I priced everything that I did and the total of what I did if I wanted to sub it out was around $200k-250k. It cost me about $30-40k in material and a lot of time/effort but I have earned multiple times of what I have put into my tools and I am satisfied with the quality of the job at the end (I am fussy/picky).

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