Makita LS1019L, Makita LS1219L or Bosch GCM12SD Miter Saws

[Greg Parrish]

If you are not going to buy a Festool but wanted a top notch slider, does anyone have first hand experience with these 3? The new Makita LS1019L looks nice but I’d like to hear first hand input from creeks versus just amazon reviews and comments. I’m looking for reliability, accuracy, close to wall design and good dust collection. Basically as close to a kapex as I can get bit for 1/3rd the price.

Thanks for any input.

[Greg Parrish]

I asked the above as these were the 3 sliders in stock at my local store. I brought home the Makita LS1019L and then started reading more reviews. Of course that got me nervous about my choice. Thought I would get opinions before opening the box.

In the absence of some early feedback I went ahead and opened it up and to my dismay it appears to have one of the issues I read about. The blade/slider isn’t perpendicular to the fence. I used a square at first to check this and could see a perceptible amount of change in gap as the slider moved back and forth. That got me to break out the Starrett 25-341J dial gauge and stand and set it up to measure from zero as I moved the slide in and out. It’s measuring a .04 inch difference as it moves from front to back to front. That’s enough that I won’t be able to get a square picture frame.

From best looks i cant find any way to adjust for this as the fence doesn’t move and the slide bars don’t move. I’m guessing I should go back in the morning and exchange for the Bosch 12” but figured I would see if anyone chimes in on my thoughts, measurement approach, etc.

thanks

[John TenEyck]

It looks like the fence should be adjustable. What does the Owner's Manual say about squaring the blade to the fence? Almost nothing is perfect out of the box. FWIW, nothing on my Bosch was perfect, or even close, even though it got glowing reviews as being so.

John

[Greg Parrish]

It looks like the fence should be adjustable. What does the Owner's Manual say about squaring the blade to the fence? Almost nothing is perfect out of the box. FWIW, nothing on my Bosch was perfect, or even close, even though it got glowing reviews as being so.

John

i don’t see it in the manual but found some reviews on the prior models so I’ll look, but if my thinking is correct there still shouldn’t be .04” movement along the length of the rails should there? Maybe I need to measure differently. I’ll look again in a bit. I have 30 days to exchange it if needed.

[Greg Parrish]

Here is what I mean. If I’m interpreting this correctly, it is not square along the rails as the blade moves past a fixed point so regardless of the fence the cut won’t end up square when using the slider. See attached video.

https://txbonds.zenfolio.com/img/s/v...116461-210.mp4

[Reinis Kanders]

I have the same issue with the battery powered version of the same saw XSL06. Mine was really bad out of the box. There are two bolts that can be loosened and then rails can be levered to adjust the run out, but it is a time consuming hack and best I could achieve was what you have.
Still kept the saw because dust collection is good and battery power is nice.
Maybe exchange and see if next one is better.

[Greg Parrish]

Reinis, I just read about that last night. Tried it this morning and managed to get it within 1 or 2 thousands which is pretty good I guess. It’s 1/128th to 1/64th inch over 4 cuts making a frame.

I see that much movement with my technique just using the slide. If I press too hard or lean I get similar deflection.

Not sure if the Bosch would be more forgiving in that department or not. Also not sure if I should expect more accuracy from a slide mitersaw.

Here was from my last measurement. Some of that movement might be the factory saw blade surface too.
https://txbonds.zenfolio.com/img/s/v...455868-210.mp4



So the question is, is this as good as I can get or would the Bosch be truer once calibrated? And has anyone seen reports indicating the adjustment on the Makita rails will hold long term?

[Greg R Bradley]

You can flex any Sliding Miter Saw side to side.

Your biggest movement in the video seems to be when the dial indicator hits the thicker part of the blade. At the end it looks like you might be almost to the point where it drops back to the thinner part of the blade. Can you get it up where it stays on the thicker part with the slick label to help consistency?

Best one I ever saw was the Makita LSxx14 series. I see the new xx19 series has adopted a one-piece rotating table that is partially based upon that design. Haven't seen a xx19 series in person so don't know about the other issue.

[Greg Parrish]

Thanks. I noticed the blade wasn’t flat and that’s why I moved to the bottom to measure. LOL

maybe I’ll stick another blade in and measure again. It’s a 10” so as long as the arbor is the same one of my cabinet saw blades may be a better candidate to measure with. Will circle back in a bit with results.

You can flex any Sliding Miter Saw side to side.

Your biggest movement in the video seems to be when the dial indicator hits the thicker part of the blade. At the end it looks like you might be almost to the point where it drops back to the thinner part of the blade. Can you get it up where it stays on the thicker part with the slick label to help consistency?

Best one I ever saw was the Makita LSxx14 series. I see the new xx19 series has adopted a one-piece rotating table that is partially based upon that design. Haven't seen a xx19 series in person so don't know about the other issue.

[Greg R Bradley]

Other thoughts:
From an engineering standpoint, I can't see the Bosch Glide holding up long term. The Glide mechanism is cute but asking for it to be precise based upon the bearings is just not going to work out. The 10" is actually designed incorrectly and moves the blade in an S movement that can easily be seen.

Precision is a non-slider

Don't think the Festool is a marvel of accuracy just because it is expensive. I have one primarily for the precision low speed capabilities for materials other than wood and the dust extraction. It is very adjustable but can be flexed just as easily as any others. Its a mix of good and bad just like all the others.

[Greg Parrish]

The Bosch I was looking at is the 12” version. GCM12SD. The 10” version has mixed reviews but the 12” seems to consistently get good reviews.

Thats said, I changed out the blade for a brand new Freud diablo 96 tooth blade, I locked the saw down to remove my hand induced flex, and I pinned the blade guard up as I was holding it before. I then raised the oneway gauge up and clamped it in place. From there I set the dial gauge to zero and pushed the saw in with one finger and pulled it out with one finger. On the way in, direction of cut, it maintained very good accuracy. On the way out I could feel and see more movement at the end but think I induced that myself.

Shot a little better video since I wasn’t holding everything this time. Hopefully I have this part dialed in and I can move on to squaring the blade to the fence and table and checking my detents and what not. Not sure this can get much better and not sure I could hold it this precise in actual use anyway. For more precision I would move to the Incra miter 5000 sled on the tablesaw. But I do want to have as precise of cuts as possible on the miter saw. Think I have it set to 1/1000 from full extension to full contraction as it sits now if my measurement in the video is accurate.

https://txbonds.zenfolio.com/img/s/v...503700-210.mp4

Other thoughts:
From an engineering standpoint, I can't see the Bosch Glide holding up long term. The Glide mechanism is cute but asking for it to be precise based upon the bearings is just not going to work out. The 10" is actually designed incorrectly and moves the blade in an S movement that can easily be seen.

Precision is a non-slider

Don't think the Festool is a marvel of accuracy just because it is expensive. I have one primarily for the precision low speed capabilities for materials other than wood and the dust extraction. It is very adjustable but can be flexed just as easily as any others. Its a mix of good and bad just like all the others.

[Reinis Kanders]

I really like M18 Milwaukee 7 1/4 inch battery powered miter saw. Dust collection is decent and it is very portable yet precise, perhaps because smaller blade is also stiffer.

[Keith Weber]

That sucks to hear that. I'd like to bench mount my SCMS, but the rear rails get in the way, so I've been looking at the LS1019L, the Kapex and the Bosch to get the wall clearance. From what I've read and/or seen, they all suck! I found the Kapex to be gutless relative to my older, bulletproof Makita, and the price is ridiculous for a gutless saw with a history of motor burnouts by a company that seems to have no interest in addressing the issue. I found the Bosch to have way too much flex, and the Makita seems to have these tracking issues without proper adjusting capabilities. Uuggghhhhh!

Greg, Did you try making a full width crosscut and backlighting the cut edge against a surface place or a precision straight edge? I've read that some of them cut in an arc, so the cut isn't even straight. I think it had to do with the rails not being parallel.

[Greg R Bradley]

....

Shot a little better video since I wasn’t holding everything this time. Hopefully I have this part dialed in and I can move on to squaring the blade to the fence and table and checking my detents and what not. Not sure this can get much better and not sure I could hold it this precise in actual use anyway. For more precision I would move to the Incra miter 5000 sled on the tablesaw. But I do want to have as precise of cuts as possible on the miter saw. Think I have it set to 1/1000 from full extension to full contraction as it sits now if my measurement in the video is accurate.

https://txbonds.zenfolio.com/img/s/v...503700-210.mp4

That looks to be excellent. Always a bit hard to tell with a dial indicator bouncing around when something slide past the tip. I've been tempted to get a tip with a roller.
I wouldn't criticize Makita much for not having this part easily adjusted as most buyers wouldn't even know HOW to measure it in the first place.

[Greg Parrish]

That looks to be excellent. Always a bit hard to tell with a dial indicator bouncing around when something slide past the tip. I've been tempted to get a tip with a roller.
I wouldn't criticize Makita much for not having this part easily adjusted as most buyers wouldn't even know HOW to measure it in the first place.

Yep, those bounces could be friction on the tip or slight I,perfections in the blade or coating, but I feel that by getting them down to 1/1000 that it means overall the movement is really straight now and any variance will be my influence when using it. I need to get back to it today and square the rest of the settings and fence and then try some cuts. Got sidetracked working on my continued workshop shuffle yesterday.