I just don’t get it I'm trying to learn

[Warren Mickley]

None of my chisels have been put to an electric grinder since I acquired them. I sharpen full flat bevel every time. It takes me about 70 seconds to sharpen a chisel and I do the same routine every time, which I think is good for developing intimacy with the tools.

I don't agree that all methods are equal. Some techniques are designed for the less skilled (master sharpening in a weekend workshop), some are inefficient, some are used by those who are not so discerning, some work is not so demanding as others. Some claim they can grind on a wheel without damaging the chisel and then seem to need special steel to get edge longevity.

[Patrick Walsh]

I’m no sharpening expert and consider myself still learning. With that said I’m pretty good at it st this point.

I will sit for 45 minutes working from 400 through a Janet finish stone. I don’t own a grinder and attribute learning to sharpen well in a short time to being forced to do it by hand.

I have also learnt to sharpen before I need to sharpen. When I’m doing something important I will stop and touch up “two stone process” say for every operation. It takes all of 30-60 seconds.

[Rob Luter]

If I need to completely restore an edge due to big nicks, chips, or other major issues, I hollow grind on my low speed grinder. Beyond that I only use flat abrasives (stones/film/diamond/strop/etc.). I can say that of my tools that have had to be ground, none have had it done more than once in the last 6-7 years. Being a hobbyist, my tooks just don't get that much wear. Periodic touch ups sustain the sharp edge.

Do you grind as soon as the arc is gone? - I haven't worn a blade that much yet
Do you grind every time you sharpen? - No
How long does it take you to maintain a blade, ie 2 minutes, 5 minutes, 20 minutes? - About 30 seconds if I strop. About 5 minutes if I just dress the secondary bevel. Most of the time is used taking the iron out of the plane, placing it in the honing guide, and and putting it back in after sharpening. The time on the abrasives is very short. Stropping is performed freehand.

Since I discovered stropping, I sharpen on my abrasives less often. Prior to using a plane or chisel I'll freshen up the edge with a few strokes on the strop freehand, and then periodically during extended work sessions. It's remarkable how effective it is.

[steven c newman]

Have had plane irons come into the shop, looking like this..~....and more than a few chisels come in at a skew....I' ll grind those, to get them back to straight....and square to the side....after that...mainly oil stone and paper...then strop....unless the edge is really messed up. I try for a single, flat bevel. Maintain....usually just a strop..been known to use the pants leg of my jeans...sitting down at the bench, chopping mortises, refresh on the jeans, chop the next mortise. 5x on the bevel to 1-2 on the back. Back to work.

[James Pallas]

I did learn from this thread. If you can grind on a high speed grinder with no fear of burning no need to change. A CBN wheel is a nice feature to add. It seems about equal between maintaining flat bevel or hollow grind. Tool rests can make some difference. The amount of time spent seems to be about the same for sharpening media other than grinders. If your getting good edges be happy. The part I still don’t understand is: When someone asks the first suggestions usually involve an expensive slow speed grinding system. I think I’ll not be spending money on a system. I do have PMV irons, no chisels yet. I like the PMV 11 irons well enough that I’ll think I’ll use the cash I’ll save on the grinding system to buy some PMV 11 chisels.
Thanks Jim

[Vincent Tai]

I did learn from this thread. If you can grind on a high speed grinder with no fear of burning no need to change. A CBN wheel is a nice feature to add. It seems about equal between maintaining flat bevel or hollow grind. Tool rests can make some difference. The amount of time spent seems to be about the same for sharpening media other than grinders. If your getting good edges be happy. The part I still don’t understand is: When someone asks the first suggestions usually involve an expensive slow speed grinding system. I think I’ll not be spending money on a system. I do have PMV irons, no chisels yet. I like the PMV 11 irons well enough that I’ll think I’ll use the cash I’ll save on the grinding system to buy some PMV 11 chisels.
Thanks Jim

I don't like the idea of the Tormek and other slower speed clones and its price tag for someone starting out either. Unless they can easily spare the cash and just get every sharpening system. I do think a normal bench grinder (fast or 1800 rpm) has additional usefulness when their owner likes to make tools or work with metal every now and then.

I was working through the night today and sharpening my PMV-11 chisels a few times after this thread so I properly timed myself, I could get the time down to 20 seconds for some chisels. 30 for something that needs work on a 1000 grit sort of stone. At that point that I have to make the effort of speeding things like moving from one stone to the other and a little more speed in the strokes etc. For the bigger chisels where I rest the chisel on the hollow; I am too faint hearted to go much faster and potentially "lift off" the hollow, so 50 seconds give or take.

I like this thread. Warren's times for his flat bevel chisels are something I'll be keeping in mind for my set of chisels with flat bevels. I think I'll be stuck at being at least twice as slow (3-4 times slower for the big chisels) for a long while but nevertheless a decade later and perhaps my efficiency might go up a tick.

[William Fretwell]

I did buy a Tormek like copy with a water wheel, but not for sharpening, grinding mis-formed stainless corners from a drawing process. I have used it once for a chipped corner on a Japanese chisel.

I find my diamond plates followed by stones very fast for my regular and high speed steel. I found A2 steel would stay almost sharp for a long time but I prefer to work with very sharp and hone so have given up on A2.

My D2 pig stickers work well with my manual sharpening also, hollow grinding those would be counter productive.

My timber frame chisels have a rounded bevel. I currently see no place for grinding outside of a major repair.

[lowell holmes]

I have diamond hones that do a great job. I have three grades from coarse to fine. My edges never see a grinder unless they are dropped and chipped.

[Rob Luter]

I did learn from this thread. If you can grind on a high speed grinder with no fear of burning no need to change. A CBN wheel is a nice feature to add. It seems about equal between maintaining flat bevel or hollow grind. Tool rests can make some difference. The amount of time spent seems to be about the same for sharpening media other than grinders. If your getting good edges be happy. The part I still don’t understand is: When someone asks the first suggestions usually involve an expensive slow speed grinding system. I think I’ll not be spending money on a system. I do have PMV irons, no chisels yet. I like the PMV 11 irons well enough that I’ll think I’ll use the cash I’ll save on the grinding system to buy some PMV 11 chisels.
Thanks Jim

Slow speed doesn’t mean expensive. I use a variable speed Delta from the Borg and I get great results.

[Jerry Olexa]

I don't grind unless there is damage (a chip, uneven edges etc.). Your sharpening regimine should handle most of your needs IMHO.

[Steve Voigt]

I think it depends entirely on how you sharpen, what kind of stones you use, and what kind of grinder you have. Changing any of these variables is likely to change the result. You should find a grinding method that fits with your stones and your technique.
I use oilstones and high speed 8" dry grinder. When sharpening, I locate the hollow on the stone (starting with a medium India), then lift approximately 5° and raise a burr. I work the back, then repeat on a trans Ark, flatten the back again, and strop. With say a 1" chisel, I'm typically taking only 3-5 strokes on each stone, so it's very fast.
For this technique to work, it's important to keep the secondary bevel small. When the secondary is more than an eighth of an inch wide, it becomes a chore, and I go back to the grinder. I grind until the secondary is almost, but not quite, gone (see pic below). For the chisels shown, it probably takes 2-3 minutes to grind, including setting the angle.
I probably get 15-20 honings in before I have to grind. My most used chisels probably go back to the grinder every 2-4 weeks. I am at the bench nearly full time, so for the evenings/weekends woodworker, trips to the grinder would be far less frequent.
If you're not honing at a higher angle than you grind at, or if you're using the "convex bevel" method, it makes sense to grind less frequently. Same is true if you're using water or diamond stones. So again, my advice is not to look for general answers, but to find an approach that fits with your system.

IMG_1979.jpg

[James Pallas]

I started this thread because it seemed to me that when the subject comes up the advice is a power sharpener system not a grinder but a system. As I said I tried one, don't need to mention the brand. I could have sung Marty Robbins' "El Passo" 2 or 3 times in the time it took to grind a 3/4" chisel. I've worked with grinders a lot, both high and low speed. There were not many small low speed grinders around. 8" and up mostly. I'm just fine with a high speed and don't use that often. I'm surprised that there are so many that use grinders seldom in the replies. I thought I was missing something so I asked. I got good answers I think. It seems to me that systems are somewhat of a luxury item by the replies. I'm good to go with what I do. Not going to change anything. No speed secret that I can see from replies.
Jim

[Andrew Seemann]

I redo the hollow grind based on a precise mathematical formula derived from the intersection of curves representing the amount of time it takes to hone and the amount of time it takes to regrind the hollow modified by a coefficient representing my general level of impatience at that point in time (I got the Big Bang Theory DVD set for Christmas and am letting out my inner Sheldon ).

Basically, I only regrind the hollow if the edge is messed up or I loose patience at how long it takes to touch up the edge. For some tools it could be every few months, and others, every few years. Usually I wait to do a bunch of chisels and planes at once.

I have a Tormek, that I got cheap on super closeout from Rockler a dozen years ago, for doing the hollow grinds. I learned on water stones and could go back to that method if I had to (like if they banned electricity), but I prefer the ease and no-brain simplicity of the Tormek.

I've tried basically every method of sharpening (including using concrete floor), and have a drawerful of stuff to prove it; the only method I really don't like is sandpaper. Everything else was at least passable, though my preferred way is Tormek for the hollow grind, water stones to hone/touch up the cutting bevel, and the leather Tormek wheel with that Tormek toothpaste to strop.

[ken hatch]

I started this thread because it seemed to me that when the subject comes up the advice is a power sharpener system not a grinder but a system. As I said I tried one, don't need to mention the brand. I could have sung Marty Robbins' "El Passo" 2 or 3 times in the time it took to grind a 3/4" chisel. I've worked with grinders a lot, both high and low speed. There were not many small low speed grinders around. 8" and up mostly. I'm just fine with a high speed and don't use that often. I'm surprised that there are so many that use grinders seldom in the replies. I thought I was missing something so I asked. I got good answers I think. It seems to me that systems are somewhat of a luxury item by the replies. I'm good to go with what I do. Not going to change anything. No speed secret that I can see from replies.
Jim

Jim,

You are correct there is only one set of secrets to sharpening and it has nothing to do with stones or grinders. The secret is developing your eye and your fingers. You can see and feel sharp. If it looks sharp and feels sharp it is sharp and if you can not see and feel all the grinders, jigs, and stones are just so much mumbo jumbo. Of course as always with all thing wood and in life I'm likely full of it and YMMV.

Good decision to just keep on keeping on.

Good thread,

ken