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Thread: Annealing or deep engraving?

  1. #16
    Try this, it might make you happy--

    Run the word 'TEST' in Arial black, about 4mm tall...

    hatch 1: use the fast hatch, color BLACK, 45°, .005 spacing, YES cross hatch, NO follow edge NO mark contour

    hatch 2" use fast hatch, color BLUE, 90°, .002 spacing, YES cross hatch, NO edge or contour...

    Make your BLACK setting: 3000 speed, 50 power (your machine, I'd try 60 power), 20 freq-- and 12 (twelve) loops-!

    Make your BLUE setting: 200 speed, 33 power, 72 freq, ONE loop...

    -- the black run gets some depth- not REAL deep, but some, and it's clean and smooth-
    -- the blue run is the basic anneal pass, the cross hatch seals the deal

    I did this on my new machine, IN focus, and basically, it looks like my knife
    ========================================
    ELEVEN - rotary cutter tool machines
    FOUR - CO2 lasers
    THREE- make that FOUR now - fiber lasers
    ONE - vinyl cutter
    CASmate, Corel, Gravostyle


  2. #17
    Kev,
    awesome! Thanks so much! I’ll try it first thing tomorrow! Very kind of you to write that all out!!😊
    hey I’d love to see a pic of this if you get time!
    Thanks again and I’ll let you know how it turns out!
    marianne

  3. #18
    had to find the camera, the holidays swallowed it

    the top-center TEST is the winner, definitely better than my test runs before it-
    test3.jpgtest4.jpg

    this is the best 'cheap shot' in perfect light
    but note the depth, not a lot but a couple thou maybe,
    definitely qualifies as "engraving"
    test1.jpg

    a bit different angle- this shot (and the next) point out the issue
    that plagues the 'fast hatch'; because it runs in different directions
    to optimize speed, sometimes a seam doesn't quite overlap enough...
    pretty deep and dark--
    test5.jpg

    This shot has overhead light directly hitting it, and it shows that the
    bottom isn't really all that smooth, BUT, the tight hatch and several
    high speed runs did effectively blunt the peaks down, allowing the
    anneal to 'take'...
    test2.jpg

    it still has a some holographic effect at some angles but not nearly as much as 'basic' blackening.
    The high-speed trick to deep engraving I learned from Gary, different variations give different results,
    but the main benefit is a much smoother finish than really-deep-really-fast ablating. And in the end,
    it's not all that much slower
    ========================================
    ELEVEN - rotary cutter tool machines
    FOUR - CO2 lasers
    THREE- make that FOUR now - fiber lasers
    ONE - vinyl cutter
    CASmate, Corel, Gravostyle


  4. #19
    6CBD6A6A-327F-41F3-A62D-54E2762D33E2.jpg
    Kev,
    so the top text I did with the black hatch at 60 speed and all else as you suggested. Bottom text I did at 50 speed.
    The top one seemed to burn a bit around edges more than the bottom one. It does have a bit of depth and is smoother!!
    your pics look great!! I think I could get it a bit darker. Any thoughts? I’m going to play with this today!
    Thanks, Marianne

    Quote Originally Posted by Kev Williams View Post
    had to find the camera, the holidays swallowed it

    the top-center TEST is the winner, definitely better than my test runs before it-
    test3.jpgtest4.jpg

    this is the best 'cheap shot' in perfect light
    but note the depth, not a lot but a couple thou maybe,
    definitely qualifies as "engraving"
    test1.jpg

    a bit different angle- this shot (and the next) point out the issue
    that plagues the 'fast hatch'; because it runs in different directions
    to optimize speed, sometimes a seam doesn't quite overlap enough...
    pretty deep and dark--
    test5.jpg

    This shot has overhead light directly hitting it, and it shows that the
    bottom isn't really all that smooth, BUT, the tight hatch and several
    high speed runs did effectively blunt the peaks down, allowing the
    anneal to 'take'...
    test2.jpg

    it still has a some holographic effect at some angles but not nearly as much as 'basic' blackening.
    The high-speed trick to deep engraving I learned from Gary, different variations give different results,
    but the main benefit is a much smoother finish than really-deep-really-fast ablating. And in the end,
    it's not all that much slower

  5. #20
    See all the other 'TEST's on that piece of SS? Practice, practice, practice I just made adjustments to settings until I found some that work! You just need to do the same, your close, just need some tweaking! I'd start with lowering the power a bit to help with the edges, raising or lowering the freq a bit might get you darker (use single increments, my Triumph likes 72kz better than 71 or 73!)

    Your pics show what you just got is MUCH blacker than the W already
    ========================================
    ELEVEN - rotary cutter tool machines
    FOUR - CO2 lasers
    THREE- make that FOUR now - fiber lasers
    ONE - vinyl cutter
    CASmate, Corel, Gravostyle


  6. #21
    Join Date
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    Those tags are likely 6061 aluminum and are soft anodized, very common material and process. Anodized aluminum will take a fraction of the time to mark as it takes to get depth on any other metal. All you are doing is bleaching the dye and not removing any metal whatsoever. I use metric measurements on my fibers so these settings may not make much sense - anodized aluminum I use 1,500mm/sec speed, 100% power and 40 frequency, one hatch at .07mm at 45 degrees and another at 135 degrees. To mark a 1" square with these settings would take maybe 10-15 seconds. The exact settings depend on a few things - the size and overall shape of the design, the detail of the design, and how many parts I'm doing with this design.
    I know Suwanee, GA is a ways from Tampa,FL but if you ever get up this way I'd be happy to spend a few hours with you on my machines to give you an idea of what I do and how I do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marianne Rusche View Post
    Yes, I haven’t done anything with anodized aluminum but maybe it’s something to look into. I guess it would definitely be quicker than trying to anneal or trying to deeply engrave stainless steel. Do you agree? Seems like you are engraving just though the anodized part. No polishing and no inking. My only reference right now for anodized aluminum is through colored pet id tags that you buy at a pet store. Is this the type of metal you are referring too? Do you have any thoughts about other markets I could look into that are in need of laser anodized aluminum. I only know about pet tags

  7. #22
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    Aug 2006
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    You won't get any better advice than what Kev posted! My color test grid took me countless hours to create and variations of 1khz sometimes made the difference between one color and another and between shades or degrees of black. Because of the time spent I'm not willing to share the exact settings, but I will say that I have numerous pieces of 6" x 8" 10ga stainless that have a grid of .25" squares with almost every power/speed setting for about a 25khz range of frequencies, all using the same hatch type, angle, and spacing. It was fairly easy to eliminate certain speed/power settings because they couldn't possibly leave a mark no matter how many passes, so the grid doesn't have every combination, same with frequencies - some were too fast to make a mark no matter the speed or power, likewise, some were too slow. They were all done out of focus by 2 or 3mm, any closer and it was too easy to ablate the material, any farther and it took too much power to overcome. It's easy to see how/why it took so long to do this, and yet it was all mostly wasted time as I have found no way to make money with color marking with the fiber...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kev Williams View Post
    See all the other 'TEST's on that piece of SS? Practice, practice, practice I just made adjustments to settings until I found some that work! You just need to do the same, your close, just need some tweaking! I'd start with lowering the power a bit to help with the edges, raising or lowering the freq a bit might get you darker (use single increments, my Triumph likes 72kz better than 71 or 73!)

    Your pics show what you just got is MUCH blacker than the W already

  8. #23
    Kev,
    yep, I’m at my laser, changing up the settings just a tad. It’s pretty close to your settings. What’s crazy is that there are SO MANY variables that can totally change things. If I don’t write it down, I forget what settings I used. This sure isn’t a one size fits all kind of thing!😜 It’s a real challenge! For annealing and making it look dark and smooth and with some depth, you’ve definitely put me on the right track. I’ll keep at it! Thanks!

  9. #24
    Gary,
    not sure when I’ll get up your way but I sure appreciate the offer for some tutoring!! Lord knows I need it!😊
    Kev has put me on to some parameters ( that you showed him) to help me find an annealed, smooth and dark look that has a tiny bit of depth. Still fine tuning it!
    For my pet tags, I really like the idea of switching to anodized aluminum. It seems fast and can maybe help with my shrinking profit margin.
    question: I’m sure there are lots of different quality anodized aluminum. Do you know a supplier that sell good quality aluminum and that may even have some old scraps that I could practice on? I have seen tags that are cheap and they don’t hold up very long. The anodized part chips away and the letters disappear. OR, could you advise what type, number or brand name of good quality anodized aluminum blanks that I should look for to purchase? Appreciate all the help! Marianne

  10. #25
    Join Date
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    For anything anodized I only use Chewbarka. Frank will send you a sample pack of a variety of shapes so you can see how good they are! I really don't know how they compare price-wise to other suppliers, the quality is so good that I don't care. It could be the parts you were using, but if the anodizing chips away then you may be lasering into the surface. The key to marking anodized aluminum is the highest speed and lowest power you can use to produce a good image and not affect the surface in any way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marianne Rusche View Post
    Gary,
    not sure when I’ll get up your way but I sure appreciate the offer for some tutoring!! Lord knows I need it!
    Kev has put me on to some parameters ( that you showed him) to help me find an annealed, smooth and dark look that has a tiny bit of depth. Still fine tuning it!
    For my pet tags, I really like the idea of switching to anodized aluminum. It seems fast and can maybe help with my shrinking profit margin.
    question: I’m sure there are lots of different quality anodized aluminum. Do you know a supplier that sell good quality aluminum and that may even have some old scraps that I could practice on? I have seen tags that are cheap and they don’t hold up very long. The anodized part chips away and the letters disappear. OR, could you advise what type, number or brand name of good quality anodized aluminum blanks that I should look for to purchase? Appreciate all the help! Marianne

  11. #26
    Wow, that’s great to know because I know Frank from chewbarka. Small world!! Before I bought my fiber laser, I almost bought a refurbished gravograph machine from him. He seems like a great guy!! That’s definitely where I will go!
    Thanks again so much, Marianne

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    Suwanee, GA
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    Yep, Frank is a great guy! He has provided me with a lot of different tags and plates and I've never been disappointed! He has also provided almost a million dog tags for the dog tags for kids project.

  13. #28
    AFD2FF73-ED92-4F95-A03C-08013552D1BF.jpg
    Gary,
    i actually found a few tags that Frank sent me last year. I never tried them on my fiber laser. I just did many tries and found the last w’s on right got pretty white. The W in right corner I deep engraved and I guess that would chip eventually. I did 3 loops, 2000 speed, 10 power, 40 freq.
    one hatch 45, .04 and second at 90, .04. It took less than a second. It does worry me because there’s no depth to it at all.
    Do you think this quality of tag can be as sturdy as annealing stainless steel? I wonder if it would fade/disappear over time. But it is fast!!!!!! I’m going to make a real one for my dog and test it out!


    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Hair View Post
    Yep, Frank is a great guy! He has provided me with a lot of different tags and plates and I've never been disappointed! He has also provided almost a million dog tags for the dog tags for kids project.

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Suwanee, GA
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    you do not want any depth at all! You are bleaching out the color and it is permanent, doesn't fade, etc! If you get any depth at all then you compromise the anodize layer and will definitely end up with chips and oxidation and other nasty stuff that you can avoid by not breaching the surface.

    Do one pass - 1,500 speed, 30 power, 40 freq, one hatch at 45, one at 135, .07mm spacing, with the continuous hatch (it's all blue lines back and forth). If you get sparks then reduce power until they stop, sparks means you are ablating metal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marianne Rusche View Post
    AFD2FF73-ED92-4F95-A03C-08013552D1BF.jpg
    Gary,
    i actually found a few tags that Frank sent me last year. I never tried them on my fiber laser. I just did many tries and found the last w’s on right got pretty white. The W in right corner I deep engraved and I guess that would chip eventually. I did 3 loops, 2000 speed, 10 power, 40 freq.
    one hatch 45, .04 and second at 90, .04. It took less than a second. It does worry me because there’s no depth to it at all.
    Do you think this quality of tag can be as sturdy as annealing stainless steel? I wonder if it would fade/disappear over time. But it is fast!!!!!! I’m going to make a real one for my dog and test it out!

  15. #30
    Will give it a go!! Thanks again Gary!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Hair View Post
    you do not want any depth at all! You are bleaching out the color and it is permanent, doesn't fade, etc! If you get any depth at all then you compromise the anodize layer and will definitely end up with chips and oxidation and other nasty stuff that you can avoid by not breaching the surface.

    Do one pass - 1,500 speed, 30 power, 40 freq, one hatch at 45, one at 135, .07mm spacing, with the continuous hatch (it's all blue lines back and forth). If you get sparks then reduce power until they stop, sparks means you are ablating metal.

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