Located a few miles from my house, price seems a little high, wish I had the space and need VFD. Direct drive, bet that hums.
https://fayar.craigslist.org/tls/d/l...770182991.html
[OP]
Contributor
Located a few miles from my house, price seems a little high, wish I had the space and need VFD. Direct drive, bet that hums.
https://fayar.craigslist.org/tls/d/l...770182991.html
Last edited by julian abram; 12-30-2018 at 12:34 PM.
Contributor
I think a little high too given the guard is missing. If the tables are flat over their width and in good condition, 2500 leaves room for a guard and 400 for a vfd to run it. There are threads over at owwm rehabbing the Moak jointers. Dave
Member
I agree that the price is high for that size / condition.
I bought a 40's era, 3 phase/direct drive, 12" Oliver 166 in perfect working condition recently for $1250. Another $350 for a VFD and I was good to go. $3500 is 16"+ territory and it better be complete and not too bad on the eyes for that kind of coin.
Member
I agree with everybody on the pricing. There's two right now in the Chicago area list under $2000.00.
3-toed jointers are my absolute favorite. I've restored 5 of them, in all the sizes. I currently own a 16" Yates American. They are easy to work on, easy to tune for use, and they are bulletproof machines once you get them dialed in. You don't have to level them to prevent twist, because the 3-toed design eliminates the need. And, yes, 4 legged machines do twist if not leveled, just like a metal lathe, although most of the time, not enough to make a difference for woodworking.
They are easily moved around the shop with a pallet jack, too. No need for a mobile base, for those who need a mobile machine.
Jeff
Member
For that money you could have a new Grizzly G0609X - 12" Jointer w/ Spiral Cutterhead
delivered. Probably have to pay Sales tax now though...
Too much to do...Not enough time...life is too short!
[OP]
Contributor
Good point on the 12" Griz. It would be very attractive around $1200, $3500 just buys a lot of "Patina".Originally Posted by Bill Space
For that money you could have a new Grizzly G0609X - 12" Jointer w/ Spiral Cutterhead
delivered. Probably have to pay Sales tax now though...
Contributor
The Moak offers a lot more than patina. A new equivalent 12" cast iron jointer is close to 20K. Check out the Northfield price list for the heavy 12". Basically the same machine. And yes, there is about a 17K difference in quality. Dave
Member
Dave,
Do you really think whatever differences there may be between the 12 inch Moak and Grizzly makes much difference to the home shop user?
I like old iron and recently bought a 20" Davis and Wells bandsaw. But the price was right compared to buying a new 20" import.
My Grizzly 8" spiral head jointer does everything I need it to in my home shop.
Can't help to think that for the same money, the Grizzly would be the better buy for the home shop.
Now if the Moak was $1,000 or maybe a bit more it might worth it. But for me at least, that $3,500 is a pie in the sky price the seller is wishing for.
Bill
Too much to do...Not enough time...life is too short!
Contributor
Bill, I also have a DJ 20 so some of my bias is based on that comparison. The heavy cast iron base and direct drive 5" cutterhead operate vibration free. I work fairly often with 8/4-12/4 12' length hardwood and won't throw that weight on the DJ20 because the base and tables won't take much of that without moving settings. Maybe other similar jointers will but I've dropped a workbench top on my Porter that took two of us to lift with no change in the settings. The old jointers were typically spec'd to .002-.004 across the entire length of both tables. New jointers might be as good but many are spec'd to .010 over the length of one table. If you get a straight one fine but .010 over 3' doesn't do it for me after running a better one. My DJ 20 is off about .008 at the far end and the table lips at the head are under about .003 from a few inches back to the cast iron. Not a huge deal but it took time to figure out why setting knives to the lip edge screwed things up.
I agree that 3500 is too much in my world the larger jointers are a machine where old beats new. Better seasoned fine grade cast iron, and a better grind if the tables are in good shape. There is no worry that the cast iron will move as that would have happened long ago. My Porter had a planed table and the lines are still visible across the width. Few tables are planed anymore as it is expensive but a much better process than grinding. It also gives me an indication of wear. I'm not against the new stuff but at the price point, I want to see the machine and do my own measuring. I have little faith without verification. Certain machines like shapers I tend towards machines built from the 1970s to early 2000s. The old cast iron Whitney type were way better built but the fences were not easy to adjust if there at all. I also had an old Oliver 299 planer which was many times heavier than the SAC I replaced it with but the early 2000s SAC had some things that made it work for me even though it will be dead long before the Oliver so I'm not an iron purist. Jointers for sure though. Dave
Member
Only if the home shop user wants a machine that will last a very long time. As David said already, the quality differences between an old jointer like the Moak, once set up properly, are easily defined. The machines that 'Griz' sells are made from a lesser grade of cast iron, and over time, it's going to continue to move. It's always a shame when I see how many guys spend their hard earned bucks on these newer asian machines, and come back to the forums a year or two down the line with alignment problems that they can't seem to figure out. Once you've taken a dead flat reference like a machinists camelback straightedge to these machines, you can see quickly how far out of whack some of them are.
Northfield is a good example of how the older machines were built. First of all, the old grey cast iron from the USA is a much, much, much better grade. If you've ever done alignment work on one, where hand scraping is involved, you'd understand immediately what I'm talking about. Jeff from Northfield told me that their standard practice (and this was done by many, many old manufacturers) would be to take the machine castings out of their molds, and set them outside to season for as long as ten years before machining them, and turning them into a finished machine. Over seas, they machine their castings almost immediately. Cast iron moves, and sometimes, a lot. Especially the newer, softer cast iron that has a lot of impurities and recycled material in it.
The last thing a hobbyist wants to do is deal with problems from a machine he/she thought they could just use whenever they wanted to do a little woodworking on the weekend. A jointer that is out by .010 is useless to me. My 16" Yates American is flat to less than .002 over the entire 7' length (I had the tables re-ground), and I personally scraped in the ways of the machine to much less than .001. The results are a joy to use, year after year. Can't get that with the 'Griz'.
Once again, I agree with you completely on the price. Unless that machine was finely restored, you can find 12" vintage jointers, with a little patience, for under $2000.00. I paid $400 for my 16"er, but it was a trainwreck, and I did all the work to it myself. I've been offered $4500 for it by someone who has been in my shop and used it several times, and who has already purchased two of my restorations. I will take his offer, just as soon as I find a 24" or 30" jointer to replace it.
Jeff
Contributor
I wonder how a shop with paid employees got away with no guard. Probably has no insurance or the insurance adjuster would red flag that machine and shut down the shop on the spot.
Bill
Member
I look at a lot of vintage machinery for sale at auctions, in shops, etc......you might be surprised how many of them do not have the guards in place. Not just on jointers, but other machines, as well. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just sharing my experiences.
Jeff
Contributor
The guard was probabaly hanging on a nail next to the machine so it could be popped on when OSHA or insurance came by.
Guest
They don't care. They just want your money. No insurance company can "shut down" a shop. lol
Osha doesn't pay attention to small shops either for the same reason, they just want your money.
Guest
Mine stopped by once to see if I wanted to go to lunch, perfect timing as I needed a bit more counterweight to pick up a SLR with my small lift. Lol.
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