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Thread: To buy or not to buy

  1. #46
    When you're close to retirement it doesn't matter that much, but generally speaking, it's not a good business plan to have such a large percentage of your sales from one customer.

    Lose a single customer and you're potentially going out of business. Not exactly an ideal business model.
    Equipment: IS400, IS6000, VLS 6.60, LS100, HP4550, Ricoh GX e3300n, Hotronix STX20
    Software: Adobe Suite & Gravostyle 5
    Business: Trophy, Awards and Engraving

  2. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Ross Moshinsky View Post
    When you're close to retirement it doesn't matter that much, but generally speaking, it's not a good business plan to have such a large percentage of your sales from one customer.

    Lose a single customer and you're potentially going out of business. Not exactly an ideal business model.
    Don't know what to say about that, other than we've never had a 'business model'. My old man worked for Hill Field as a machinist, and learned engraving on a Gorton 3U- Around '59 Litton hired him to be their machine shop supervisor. Litton had a pantograph up in an attic loft, I watched him engrave some desk nameplates on the thing when I was about 8... He loved engraving so he bought himself a Scripta 3D pantograph in 1966, got a hobby license; we moved into this house in '69, almost exactly 50 years ago, and Dad got an actual biz license. Litton moved his job to Texas, mom would have none of that so engraving suddenly became important. His customers were old work buddies who'd changed jobs, needed desk signs, name badges, followed by ID plates, etc- and they all knew dad had an engraver. For about 3 years we had steady work making and engraving smoked plex CRT 'protectors' for medical computers. Then sometime in 1974 one of his friends now working at Univac wondered if he could engrave computer keycaps. And when all the local companies building newfangled 'character generators' found out, all hell broke loose --Dad bought four IRX-IV pantographs to engrave keycaps and an old Gorton 3U deep-throat to make the masters... Lots more to this story, but from then till now, we have never searched for work, it's always found us. And our 'business model' slowly changes every year, we lose some customers, we gain some... Right now a single customer since October is dwarfing all others in sales. But it won't last forever. Guess we could call it the 'Sears Effect' -for sure, no one is immune!

    As for my 'retirement model', my reputation is my model. While I've never searched for work, if I did, I'd find it. One FFL license and one phone call would swamp me...


    And fwiw- many lasers, including cheap Chinese fibers do have 'time clocks'-- My Triumph is up to 457 hours in 2.5 years of use
    thours.jpg
    with 'only' a 50,000 hour life span, at my current rate of use I still have 274 years to go

    (My 14 year old LS900 has logged 3240 hours, my 4-ish year old LS100 is up to 186 hours)
    Last edited by Kev Williams; 01-19-2019 at 12:55 PM.
    ========================================
    ELEVEN - rotary cutter tool machines
    FOUR - CO2 lasers
    THREE- make that FOUR now - fiber lasers
    ONE - vinyl cutter
    CASmate, Corel, Gravostyle


  3. #48
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Iowa USA
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    So toni plaza please tell us what laser engraving machine do you own or are you a dealer selling these?
    Last edited by Mike Null; 03-06-2019 at 11:29 AM.
    Retired Guy- Central Iowa.HVAC/R , Cloudray Galvo Fiber , -Windows 10

  4. #49
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Suwanee, GA
    Posts
    3,686
    Sorry if this sounds accusatory but you sound like a salesman inching his way in to make a sale, most end-users don't have the specific information you have been posting. So Toni, what's your angle?

    Quote Originally Posted by toni plaza View Post
    There is no dealers for Keyence. If new you can buy only directly from manufacturer, or second hand when you are lucky to get it. They start at 35G and go up to 100, just for the marker. Some come with build in cameras, or you can buy vision system. They have co2, fiber, yvo4, green, uv. Keyence had 12000mm/s speed and 1µm/2µm/5µm marking resolution 15 years ago. Chinese markers even today go only to 7000/8000mm/s max and highest resolution of 20µm/30µm/50µm only. Regards.

  5. #50
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
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    Iowa USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by toni plaza View Post
    Q: are you a dealer A: There's no dealers. you can call Keyence and verify. Keyence will tell you the same. Just dealing with the Keyence sales force people. So no dealers.
    Now I have to have an angle. There is no angle. Just a surprise that no Keyence nor Omron nor Rofin now Coherent users here. And it looks like people are not aware of these top of the marking industry companies. NON is aware. So once more - NO ANGLE. I just provided some answers to people having questions. Regards.
    Well Toni you are posting on a Laser Engraving Forum about industrial machines you call laser marking machines. There are folks on here using Chinese and USA made machines, and some made in Europe. None have any use for the machines your promoting and selling.
    Retired Guy- Central Iowa.HVAC/R , Cloudray Galvo Fiber , -Windows 10

  6. #51
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    Aug 2006
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    Suwanee, GA
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    Quote Originally Posted by toni plaza View Post
    and what I am selling? Bill George, what did I offer to sell to you? Topic was; what to buy? I bet you are not even aware that all Chinese fiber lasers copied Rofin F line from 2006/2007/2008, repacked it in cheap cases, lowered the specs to 1/4th of the F line and selling it to you, and you being so unaware of it at all "fiber forever guy". Regards.
    Every post you have so far has Keyence as a suggestion - you either have an agenda or you are a troll. Either way, it's pretty annoying. If I'm wrong I'll apologize.

  7. #52
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
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    Iowa USA
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    Ignore troll mode engaged.
    Retired Guy- Central Iowa.HVAC/R , Cloudray Galvo Fiber , -Windows 10

  8. #53
    Join Date
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    Suwanee, GA
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    I'm surprised it took me so long to recognize!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill George View Post
    Ignore troll mode engaged.

  9. #54
    "Just a surprise that no Keyence nor Omron nor Rofin no[r] Coherent users here."

    My LS100 does in fact incorporate a Coherent laser, which I'm very pleased with; while rated at 35 watts tested out to between 45-47 watts, and it IS noticeably more powerful than my 40w LS900...

    Assuming no trolling going on, at issue is that Keyence, Omron and similar machines are much more suited for high-end manufacturers and mass-production companies needing their work done in-house, than for the typical owner of a '3rd party' industrial engraving shop (like me, Gary, Tim, etc.) or an awards and recognition based shop (like many others on this forum). Big companies have more need for, and can more afford high-end laser equipment. We smaller shops are strapped with enough overhead as it is, and our markets won't bear the pricing needed to make a profit with the added cost of paying for mid-5 to low-6 figure machines. If you're lucky enough, you could monopolize a particular market and do well. but chances of that happening are rare ...




    ========================================
    ELEVEN - rotary cutter tool machines
    FOUR - CO2 lasers
    THREE- make that FOUR now - fiber lasers
    ONE - vinyl cutter
    CASmate, Corel, Gravostyle


  10. #55
    any updates?

    Alpha Laser-150w
    yag laser welder
    Laser Star-80w yag laser welder
    Laser Marking Technologies
    Marksman Dominator-50w galvo fiber-raycus
    Miller Snycrowave 350 LX
    C
    erakote applicator
    Clausing-8520 milling machine
    South Bend-Lathe


  11. #56
    Any Update?

    Alpha Laser-150w
    yag laser welder
    Laser Star-80w yag laser welder
    Laser Marking Technologies
    Marksman Dominator-50w galvo fiber-raycus
    Miller Snycrowave 350 LX
    C
    erakote applicator
    Clausing-8520 milling machine
    South Bend-Lathe


  12. #57
    My first Trotec had a 45w Coherent tube. No issues. I am in touch with the people who bought my Trotec and they are still using it without any maintenance expense. It was new in 2006.

    I concur with Kev. I looked at Keyence several years ago and was very impressed with the equipment but it was well beyond what I could afford. The machine would have permitted me to do many things I can't currently do but it just wasn't right for me.
    Mike Null

    St. Louis Laser, Inc.

    Trotec Speedy 300, 80 watt
    Gravograph IS400
    Woodworking shop CLTT and Laser Sublimation
    Dye Sublimation
    CorelDraw X5, X7

  13. #58
    6 figure salary? Keep it as long as you can.
    Epilog/Trotec ? Don't forget ULS - and don't forget second hand as an option.
    Dual capacity machines - nope.
    Making $ from it ? OK what's the next joke? Experience takes time, and $ takes clientele with fussy tastes and needs.
    Those two items cannot be bought or swapped. Familiarity with DESIGN is needed, and good design, and that's not the same as using MS Word or Publisher to set out a child's birthday card or an arrangement of clip art. Good layout and design skills can take years to hone.

    Lasers are just tools, like quality chisels, hammers and a good workbench.
    It is your ability to use the tools that makes all the difference, and can make, or just as easily break, you!

    I wish you well with your learning curve!
    Best wishes,
    Ian



    ULS M-300, 55w made 2002 with rotary. Goldenlaser 130 watt, 1300x700 made 2011.
    Flat bed 2500x1300 150/90watt 2 tube laser, 2018 model.
    Esab router, 1989, 4.5 x 2.0 m, conv. to Tekcel, and modded a 2nd time.
    HP L260-60". Roland PNC-1410. Mimaki GC-130 SU.
    Screenprinting carousel 6x4 and 7x4 ft 1-arm bandit vac table.
    Corel Draw X3, Illy, Indesign & Photoshop CS2 & CS5, Enroute 4
    Pencil, paper, paintbrush, airbrush & dagger-liners & assorted other stuff.

  14. #59
    Since you don't have a maker space close by, I'd suggest a road-trip over to Epilog in Colorado. I've heard they're happy to show you the ropes with their equipment...
    Bruce Clumpner
    Brandon Services Laser Engraving
    Academy Commemoratives - Personalized Memorabilia for the U.S. Service Academies
    Irvine, CA
    -
    Epilog 75-watt Helix, 40-watt 18-Mini
    Started with Corel Draw V1 now feeling the pain of CorelDraw x7
    CS4 photoshop
    CS4 illustrator
    PhotoGrav

  15. #60
    No real updates to speak of. I've had several conversations with several different distributors and manufacturers. Still also very much up in the air on whether or not I am going to try and make a business of this. Call me very trigger shy, as I've already had one losing business, and I'm honestly scared to fail again.
    Currently I'm looking at a TYKMA system, which would be a great starting system for firearms, I believe. I'm getting a demo, by a local representative, next week.
    PS: Sorry my replies have been far and few between. I didn't get notifications, and the forum style was showing me the latest post was months ago, not days ago.
    I own no lasers... I've never used a laser... I could really use some help.

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