Yet another DC thread

[Christopher Hubbard]

I am in the market for a DC system, and am looking for suggestions.

The wife and I have just moved to a new house, and my shop will be half of an over-sized 2 car garage. My original plan had been a modified HF "2hp" collector, but as is so often the case I have now justified spending a whole bunch more. In the next 3 years it is likely that we will be moving again, at which point I will end up with a 1000ish sqft dedicated shop, and so I would like any purchases I make now to be suitable for the future as well.

I currently have a cabinet table saw, 13" lunch box planer and 10" miter saw. A router table is in my very near future, and a band saw and drill press not too far after.

I am seriously considering the Grizzly G0862 http://www.grizzly.com/products/Griz...ollector/G0862, but as it is so new there are no reviews that I can find online.

Alternatively, I am thinking about the Grizzly G1030Z2P http://www.grizzly.com/products/Griz...eries/G1030Z2P and either the Grizzly G0863 - Grizzly Growler Cyclone Separator http://www.grizzly.com/products/Griz...eparator/G0863, or the Super Dust Deputy XL. The garage has 2 doors, both with windows, and given that my side will rarely be opened, I am thinking that if I go with the G1030 setup, I will just vent to the outside through one of the windows. We live in Dallas so the climate should not be too much of an issue.

Does anyone have any advice they can give?

Thanks in advance!

[Brian Behrens]

Hi Christopher

Have you looked at the Clearvue cyclones? The machine and customer service are top notch, and made in the USA. I think the dust collector is the most important tool in the shop, if you plan to be woodworking for a long time. I have the CV1800. It is an absolute beast. I also vent outside, which will save you alot of money since you don't have to buy, maintain, or replace filters. It is a one time purchase that will not need to be upgraded in the future. Don't forget to budget for ducting .I used 6" pvc. If you are venting outside, you will be making a lot of noise outside your house, something to consider if you have neighbors. I don't, so I can get away with the sound of a helicopter idling in my backyard. I would rather see you compromise on any other tool if you had to, and put your money into the best dust collector you can afford. I've had my Clearvue running for about a year, 4 or 5 days a week, and it comes with my highest recommendation. I just pulled it up, and Clearvue is having a sale, and free shipping this week. $1335 for the CV1800 with no filters. You can attach it to your wall, or build a stand. I built a stand because my shop is in the basement, and I didn't want to transfer vibrations into the living area of the house. I have 4 tool drops, and I probably spent $400 on pipe and blast gates, wiring, etc . I use a 240v contactor and a $10 Christmas tree remote to turn mine on and off. You don't need to buy the CV electrical box, I built one myself for about $20.

[Christopher Hubbard]

Thanks for the reply. As it happens, I am about to place an order for the CV. I think I will have to go with the filter model, due to very close proximity neighbors, but once I move my shop to the country, I will probably vent outside.

Would you mind providing more information on the wiring?

Thanks

[glenn bradley]

First a disclaimer; get the best dust collection you can afford / fit into your environment. They should be item number one on anyone's "what tools should I get?" list but, too often are item number ten.

The short cone cyclones have been a boon to those with very little head room. That would be the only reason I would go with one. It would be better air treatment than a bagger. If you have the headroom I would not compromise the separation of a full length cone. That previous statement is based on hearsay from folks posting here and reviews in the trade rags. I have not used a short cone machine so do not take this as gospel. However, they wouldn't make them bigger if there wasn't a good reason, eh? More profit in a smaller machine, easier to store and ship and all that invisible overhead that goes into selling things.

Anyone going from a small bagger to even an average cyclone is going to be impressed. I would like to hear from someone who runs both, has run both, etc. as the compact size is certainly attractive but, the reviews are mixed. The short cone machines can be mobile which is a plus for a lot of folks. There are a few full size mobile units as well if this is a consideration. I should mention that better separation means better filter performance over a longer period of time. This become important the first time you take your filter off to clean it . . . kind of a pain ;-)

[John K Jordan]

Christopher,

I also have a CV1800, installed about 5 years ago. Two things:
- It is amazing - the dust pickup is incredible and the separation from the long cone still amazes me - it will put the finest talcum-like dust in the bin and almost nothing goes to the filters.
- It is incredibly loud. Without a sound-insulating closet you will certainly need hearing protection unless you are already deaf or want to be. I built a closet for it and my big air compressor and I can easily carry on a normal conversation with it running.

There are MANY ways to wire and control the ClearVue, some cheap and simple and some not so much. I'll describe below what I did and am happy with, although neither cheap nor simple.

I bought their electrical box but I agree with Brian, you can simply buy a contactor (relay) and a box from any electrical supply place and save the money. However, their box does save you a lot of effort finding the right contactor, the connectors, and outlets. The contactor lets you use a lower voltage (i.e. 24vdc or 110v ac) to electrically switch the high-current 220v to the cyclone.
http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/supp...rical-box.html
Their box also comes with a wireless remote. You can instead simply run a wall switch and forget the remote but the remote is handy. If rolling your own you can buy one of the wireless remotes sold to switch, for example, outdoor Christmas lights. I purchased several extra identical remotes from Amazon just to get extra keyfob transmitters to put at various places in the shop. (They were cheap)

You can also buy the McRabet bin-full sensor they offer. There are other ways to do this but the advantage of buying theirs is you immediately have all the right parts and instructions to make everything play together the first time.
http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/supp...in-sensor.html

One thing I did not like about the ClearVue electrical is the kluge of wires and pieces you end up with. I'm a part-time electrical/electronics nut and I couldn't stand it - I want a clean, more professional look, not only for the aesthetics but to encapsulate things to eliminate the chance of wire-snagging incidents and such AND make a more logical system for my particular installation.

This is a picture of a typical installation that Mr McRabbet sent of one installed in a closet - very clean look outside the closet. With everything in the shop instead of a closet all that wiring is on display. (I don't know who's this is.)

DC-Controls_typical.jpg

I rewired all of it to make a much cleaner package. Since my cyclone was tucked away in a closet, I wanted all the electronics, power supply, the remote receiver, and a enable/disable switch outside the closet in the main shop. And this may sound picky, but I also didn't like their choice of switch and connector hardware on the bin sensor.
DC_electrical_shop_s.jpg

This is the inside of that box:
DC_control_box.jpg

Inside the closet I wanted a motor disconnect switch and a separate enable/disable switch in a nice package. This also has a sub panel to power the cyclone and air compressor (both 5hp motors). I put in a separate sub panel for the 110v circuits. (The box in the middle is the one from ClearVue with the contactor.)
DC_electrical_closet.jpg

All this is unnecessary, of course - much simpler to just buy and install as they intend. If you want just the basic cyclone power control, the contactor, is extremely simple and so cheap if you roll your own it's almost free. The most expensive thing is running the proper wire from your breaker box to the cyclone. A bunch of people here have done this and can probably provide part numbers for useful contactors and the wiring itself is trivial. Just ask.

If you have experience with electrical you can easily wire it yourself, otherwise any electrician can (and should) install it.

JKJ

Thanks for the reply. As it happens, I am about to place an order for the CV. I think I will have to go with the filter model, due to very close proximity neighbors, but once I move my shop to the country, I will probably vent outside.

Would you mind providing more information on the wiring?

Thanks

[Christopher Hubbard]

Thanks for the reply.

I placed the order last night, but given I had already doub... tripled my budget, I decided to forgo the bundle with the electrical box, clean-out and brackets.

I am pretty comfortable with electrical, and am planning on running the 220v from my panel, I am just a little confused on how the CV gets wired. The assembly instructions aren't particularly clear.

We just moved into this house, and did quite a bit of remodelling before we moved, including new wiring and a panel. I wish I had had this bright idea six months ago. I actually have a 30A 220 next to my panel that was designated for my TS, but I am thinking the CV will fit perfectly in that corner and I will just run a new 220, in conduit, for the TS.

I will search for other threads on wiring the CV.

[Peter Christensen]

It is a motor. Simplest is a current rated switch and wire it like any machine to power. You can get very fancy with remotes, machine triggered switching, delays after turning off the machine so the DC runs a while after to clear the system and so on. For you now putting the switch in an easy to get to spot (DC can be located away in a corner) so you can turn it on and off easily makes sense. Then you are just a few steps from it. Power up and do the work and then turn it off. In the mean time you can do more research so you'll know how you want to setup your bigger dream shop.

[Jim Becker]

I also subscribe to the "centralized switch" concept for DC after dealing with inconsistencies and component failures over time with "wireless remote" type setups. Here's a diagram that I've regularly posted regarding using an appropriately rated contactor to provide power to the DC from a remotely controlled switch. (or even a cheap holiday light remote if you want to) The control side can be 120v like mine or low voltage...one must just choose a contactor that's appointed appropriately.

[Christopher Hubbard]

Thanks again.

I'm pretty comfortable with the wiring, as I said. I'm just wondering what other folks did with their setups.

Looks like this is a very helpful community.

Glad to be here

[Brian Behrens]

Christopher, the contactor comes with the cyclone. I will get some pics of how I did mine. The wiring is easy

[Brian Behrens]

There is also a forum on Clearvue's website, where lots of installation methods have been discussed.

[John K Jordan]

Christopher, the contactor comes with the cyclone. ...

You're right! I forgot that. Item 7, "Heavy Duty Motor Relay" http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/cv18...h-filters.html

For non-wireless control all that is needed is an electrical box - Home Depot sells some nice plastic boxes.

If turning it on and off with a switch or if installing a motor disconnect switch be sure to get an appropriate switch. I use these, rated for 5hp motors at 240v: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002MPQ51O
Very heavy duty.

I think using a contactor/relay would be much better for most installations, since the 110V controlling switch(s) could be put anywhere in the shop, wired with 14ga wire instead of the much heavier wire needed for the motor.

The ClearVue installation manual has the wiring diagram for using the contactor/relay:
clearvue_wiring.jpg

The manual is on this page: http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/cont...y-instructions

JKJ

[Todd Mason-Darnell]

Chris,

Congratulations on the purchase. Sorry I am late to the thread. The only comment I would make being down in Austin, is that you might want to rethink the "vent to the outside" if you are going to do any type of HVAC, especially cooling, for the garage.

I known, I tried in my 400 sq dedicated shop. I just sucked hot air in and the AC unit could not keep up.

[Brian Behrens]

Here is how mine is wired. The brown lamp cord going to each side of the contactor is for my Christmas tree remote . The conduit coming down from the motor is a premade AC unit whip that comes with #10 wire. The yellow wire coming out the bottom is SO wire with a 240v plug on the end. I grounded the enclosure because it is metal. I hope this helps. Sorry I don't know how to rotate the photos.

[Christopher Hubbard]

Chris,

Congratulations on the purchase. Sorry I am late to the thread. The only comment I would make being down in Austin, is that you might want to rethink the "vent to the outside" if you are going to do any type of HVAC, especially cooling, for the garage.

I known, I tried in my 400 sq dedicated shop. I just sucked hot air in and the AC unit could not keep up.

Thanks for the reply Todd. Yeah, I'm inclined to agree. I think I will go with the filtered solution and deal with the noise in my current shop, once I move into the big workshop I'll locate the DC in a sound proofed enclosure.