Doug Fir Alaskan yellow cedar master build.

[Patrick Walsh]

I may run a smoother over the sanded surfaces if they are flat enough post wide belt. I suspect they will be.

We will see. I just found out I can take next week off also so now I’m going to play around with prefinishing my panels and edges of my stiles and rails and my panel slot dimension and see what I come up with. I figure I can put some finish on a scrap of ayc at the dimensions I sit at right now and see if the panel still fits. If not I could item save or hand plane them down a bit until I get a perfect fit with finish.

We will see. The idea of all that, mounting and ponying up the funds to outfit all these doors with Sun Valley Bronze hinges and door knobs is daunting. Even when the doors and jambs are built I still have a half marathon to go kinda.

[Patrick Walsh]

Well good news. I got confirmation I can take my third week of vacation in a row next week. This kinda takes the pressure off a bit. Not really, as much as I am enjoying this project my mind is on my Martin sitting at work getting no attention

Plus I gotta get these doors finished “I have no idea what I’m using”. It won’t be conversion varnish but keeping time in mind it should be. Im thinking oil and amber shellac and wax. I’d like them to not yellow anymore than the oil will create.

I’m totaly against acrylic poly or poly of anysort for that matter.

So today was a really back breaking day lol. I took my dog for a 2.5 hr wall. He was very very happy.

I then spent some time with him watching tvsnd cleaning up tenon. I found on more than one occasion when my dog that suffers speration anxiety being he has never once been left alone in his 10 years for more than maybe 25-45 minutes a handful of times that much work can be done on a coffee table while watching tv.

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I also spent a a few hours in the shop finishing up all the mortise. Well not finished, tomorrow morning I clean all the corners and the joinery for these doors is done!

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I chamfer my tenon with a rasp. I’m not crazy enough to use a chisel and potential splinters. I do kinda feel like I’m cheating akin to using a widebelt for anything.

Not quite the perfection obtained I see with some people’s work regarding tightyness of work and stuff nobody will ever see but I’m not made of time and I think this work is actually pretty clean and plenty good. These doors should be very very strong and last 100 years easy. My bungalow was built in 1926 and it’s original Doug fir doors are just now bringing to pull apart at the stiles and rails. They have a profile however and I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised they are nothing more than cope and stick.

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Now I just gotta get back to working a few back to back 70mhr weeks again so I can afford a half dozen sun valley hinges and four passsage door lock sets. I’m gonna have some serious $$$ tied up in these doors by the time I’m done. I don’t come from a kollwork background. A couple of the guys I work with do. Regardless they were just worker bees and would have no idea how much a project like this would be worth. I feel like I know a African mahogany double door entry 2.25” thick with lights on either side can easily run $15-20k. Those are just numbers I have heard thrown around on job sites over the last 25 years.

I know I must have at least 3-4K in lumber into these five doors. Then the hardware I imagine will be about the sa,e if not more. I’m thinking a couple grand a doors for real mortise and tenon solid wood doors like this but I really have no idea.

Does anyone actually know? Doesn’t matter as these are mine all mine but I’d be interested to know based on the hours I have into them and materials involved.






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[Jim Becker]

If you're willing to consider using a water borne after the oil and shellac, Target Coatings EM8000cv is a very nice and durable product. Water borne finishes by their nature are acrylics, but it's the end result that counts. They are much safer to spray than any solvent based products, too. (I'm also not a fan of anything "poly" myself...that table base is the first thing I've put any kind of polyurethane on in many years outside of a floor and that was only because the oil based product was one step to get the effect I wanted)

[Patrick Walsh]

Jim,

My gripe with anything waterborne is out of my experience as a high end interior finish painter. Not being able to feather a edge when it chip is a deal break for me. As is long term durabity as waterborne poly At least used to just wash off floors with regular washing.

Now oil poly I just dint like poly as I have seen it fail time and time again plus the yellowing is a huge deal breaker if that not what you are going for.

I know modern car finished are now acrylic but you know my intellect tells me that just because something is "how it's done now" does not make it better.

I'm actually really lost on what to finish these with and the protocol for finishing first then assemble or assemble then finish. With my background as both a painter and finisher you would think it would be obvious but it's not.

[Jim Becker]

I don't generally use water borne "poly"...well actually, I've very infrequently used a spray bomb of Minwax Polycrylic or the equivalent Varathane product for a small project ike an indoor decorative sign...but everything that I spray normally has no "poly" in it. There are a bunch of different manufacturers for water borne finishes. I just happen to use Target Coatings and most of the time, that's either the EM6000 "lacquer" which has burn-in, etc., similar to solvent lacquers or the EM8000cv which is a waterborne conversion varnish. I've also used and enjoyed the EM2000 which is an emulsified oil varnish with a water carrier...similar to the BM Advance paints. It has the slight amber warmth of an oil based product with the ease of application and faster drying time of a water borne.

I did read an article not long ago about how automotive finishes have evolved over time...I can't remember where it was, but it was really interesting. Automotive acrylics are a little different than those intended for wood, I suspect...

[Patrick Walsh]

Well Jim I spent the middle section of my day running to the store to h]get the products my gut tells me I should be using.

Ignore the samples I’m just providing the pictures to show the products I’ll be using. The samples are crude at best as I just wiped each down with a product no preps what so ever.

My logic goes like this. I have a number of new construction casement windows also Douglas fir interiors that will need finish five sides and jambs in full. Whatever finish o put on them I need to put on my trim. Whatever I put on my trim I need to put on my doors.

Most important to me is to even out the inconsistency in the Doug fir. Second in line of importance is the ability to repair and blemishes down the road.

I’m a bit on the fence if I like the ambering effect the oil has on the project. On the lumber alone and separate from the overall project I like it very much. The last thing I want to is a log cabin type look. I’m going for modern Uber high end custom Japanese hand crafted look. I want a clean clean clean minimalist look. I also to consider what I’ll do for hardwood flooring and furniture. The space will need a bed, besdside tables, a couple comfy chairs, coffee table and a credenza. I was going to do all figured bubinga but that’s gonna get to busy. I’m now thinking everything teak?

That’s till leaves the floor but the floor will laregely be covered I traditional woven Japanese rugs. There is a name for them but I can’t spell to save my life so I’m not gonna try.

Anyway the finish. I like the oil then shellac approach as I can oil and shellac my panels over the weekend and be ready to assemble Monday. In all honesty I bet I could just skip pre finishing the panels with this approach and when the panels shrink oil the revail and apply another coat of shellac. Regardless I’ll pre finish the panels.

I hope I don’t regret the decision, only time will tell I guess.

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I don't generally use water borne "poly"...well actually, I've very infrequently used a spray bomb of Minwax Polycrylic or the equivalent Varathane product for a small project ike an indoor decorative sign...but everything that I spray normally has no "poly" in it. There are a bunch of different manufacturers for water borne finishes. I just happen to use Target Coatings and most of the time, that's either the EM6000 "lacquer" which has burn-in, etc., similar to solvent lacquers or the EM8000cv which is a waterborne conversion varnish. I've also used and enjoyed the EM2000 which is an emulsified oil varnish with a water carrier...similar to the BM Advance paints. It has the slight amber warmth of an oil based product with the ease of application and faster drying time of a water borne.

I did read an article not long ago about how automotive finishes have evolved over time...I can't remember where it was, but it was really interesting. Automotive acrylics are a little different than those intended for wood, I suspect...

[Patrick Walsh]

I left off yesterday with all the mortise cut and about half the corners cleaned.

I started my day cleaning the remaining corners.

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With all the corners cleaned it still left me with the task of triming the haunches to exact length. I left them slightly long off the saw out of fear I’d cut them short.

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Separate from that I’m very pleased with my joinery and the fit off my machines. Remeber I did not use a dedicated cope and stick set, tennon disks or any of that. I cut my tenon on the bandsaw and tablesaw and ran the groove for the panel on the shaper with a adjustable slot cutter. Not rocket science but plenty of room for error if one is not careful and paying attention all the way through processing all the pieces.

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Perfect alignment between stiles and rails right off the machines. Almost not need for the widebelt other than blemishes a result of mishandling of pieces durning processing or joinery.

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Post haunch trimming and fitting.

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[Patrick Walsh]

After this I took a break and took a two hour walk in the woods with the pup. I also ran to woodcraft for finishing products. I kinda wasted away most of my day.

When I got home I finished up triming the haunches and doing the final fit of everything. The good news is the joinery is 100% done!

Double closet doors.

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Entrance door.

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Other two doors also done I just don’t have pictures. This is them first thing in the morning.

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Tomorrow I’ll continue milling up the door damp stock. They will have a integral stop. I’m considering some kind of actual joinery vrs the standard screws used to hold the rail to stiles. I’ll also get to getting some finish on the panels. This will be a bit more work than just doing it as I need to run a sample and make sure the finished panel still fits. I have Panelbuddies “thank you joe for recommending them” in the mail. Chances are I won’t have them till Tuesday. That should leave me I. Great shape to have these in glue by end of day Tuesday and finished and hung by the end of next week. Well that’s if I can source hinges that fast. As far as I know Sun valley stuff is 8-10 weeks out. I may have to settle on von mortise, Baldwin or Emtec.. I hope not but it’s pretty import for movement reasons I just get thieve doors hung.

On a side note a friend or friend of a friend and millworker and custom door maker told me today he thought I was nuts for making the doors out of solid hard wood and that I was asking for major isssues. I did not ask many questions as I was swollowing hard thinking “hmm, am I screwed or do I know what I’m doing and everything will be fine he just thinks I’m nuts cuz he is a business man and concerned with money and covering his ass regarding warpage and or joint failure or something like that.

Im fully awar doors are made with staves these days or are Mdf if paint grade 90% of the time. I also love in a 100 year old house with all the original solid wood doors including exterior exterior and they all look great. So what do people think a, I screwed doignthe solid wood everything?

[Andrew Hughes]

Yes I think your friend is right you should stop right now. Send all the wood to my address especially the yellow cedar.
And I send you a lift of Mdf
Now to be serious I have some sticks of Alaskan yellow cedar sticks that I use for straight edges when I hand plane.Because they are always straight year after year. They just don’t move yellow cedar with 60+ rings per inch has got to be one of the most stable woods I’ve ever seen. Vertical grain Douglas fir is pretty darn good when it’s thick.
My doors in my house are all Vg fir including my front door.
I say carry on....

[Jim Becker]

T&T oil is my favorite.

[Patrick Walsh]

Made a little more progress today.

First step was to mill up two more ayc panels for the smaller French doors. The first 8/4 board I resawed for this task ended up finish at two 5/8 slices.

With that done I continued to mill down the stock for my door jambs. It always amazes me how much time can be spent milling lumber when building and king of medium to large cake project. Especially when you take into account milling methodically and slowly over the course of days or even weeks.

I also went hardware shopping for these doors. As I expected the stuff I want is 8-12 weeks wait. It’s also all very very expensive. I tried hard to convince myself to mix Baldwin oil rubbed hinges with the Sun valley oil rubbed door knobs and I just couldn’t stomach it. The Baldwin stuff looks spray painted black in comparison to the hand made actual bronze SunValley stuff. I’m inclined to find a nice flat surface to store the doors for the next two months and wait to hang them in the jambs. Looking at the mismatched hinges for the rest of my life will drive me bonkers. I should planned better and purchased the hardware months ago.

I did not fit the panels in the larger doors as I prefer to drag them to work and size them on the sliding saw. I’ll domthat first thing tomorrow. I’ll then bring them home sand them to 320 put a coat of the tried and tru oil on them and hopefully a coat of shellac. If that all goes as planed I can assemble everything Monday. I’ll also do the final milling of the door jamb stock including running the rebate to accept the door.

3/4 book matched panels sliced out of a 8/4 stick.

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Nothing is sanded In these pictures. This is what everything looks like off the machines and after me cleaning the corners of the mortise by hand. A bit of feeling was needed but very very little.

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I’m oretty thrilled with the joinery. To be honest I’m totally shocked it came out so well. At work we use pre dimensioned lumber to build out cabinet doors. So long as you reference the same side up or down when you run your door pieces it does not matter if there is deviation in stock thickness. As a result the back sides of the doors alway don’t align stile to rail here and there. A few passes through the wide belt tal]Les car of all of this. Point is I have gotten very used to very sloppy cope and stick joinery. What I have done here is nothing like what I do at work.

No need to even run these through a widebelt. They actually would not even really need a smoother or sander run over them if not for prepairing them for finish.

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The panel to slot fit is also just perfect. I’m praying oil and a coat of shellac does not change this.

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Shop is getting pretty full.

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[Jim Becker]

That vertical grain material is truly beautiful!

[Patrick Walsh]

Jim i would agree. Well the ayc is amazing! The df is ok, some of it great. If I had it to do again I wouldn’t mail order it I would go hand pick every board. To be honest I’m a bit disappointed in the df....

[Patrick Walsh]

Man I could really get used to a permanent vacation and or retirement. This is just great. Work a few hours to a full day when I want how I want. Walk the dog for a couple hours mid day. Space out looking at hardware for my new doors and drive a sales person nuts lol. I think I need to start consodering how I’ll ever be able to retire. I got my W2 from last year and my stomach sunk when I looked at how much I made and how little I saved. Next year I stop spending period and hunker down for a recession. If the prefect Martin t23 sliding table comes along I buy it but that’s it and nothing more. No lumber, Bonsai, hand tools any of it. Just wrap up my house inside and out and pay off the Martin jointer.

Anyway it sure is fun taking three weeks in a row off. Not really reality but how it worked out this year. I can only pray I’ll be so lucky next year.

So today I got the panels fit and called it quits. After all there was two great football games in and it’s the playoffs after all. Plus I’m supposed to be on vacation.

I ran some samples first thing today. One hand planed with my Var1 Yokoyama smother. The second sanded to 220 with the festool sander. I also made another sample board the same. One sanded one planed. One sample board got oil and a single coat of shellac and the second sample board got just shellac.

I know what one I like most but I’ll leave it to others to decide formthe,self what they like. You can share you opinion but I suspect by end of day Wednesday the panels with be a permanent part of the doors and glued in to place. Right now I’m waiting for panel spacers to arrive in the mail.

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[Patrick Walsh]

I then got to prepping my panels. I decided I did not like the hand planed finish as at least in the case of the ayc it leaves a highly burnished and shiny surface. Left alone like this the finish is just amazing and I absalutely love it!

My issue is these passage doors and they are going to see my dirty mitts and my dogs slobber day in and day out for many years to come. As I result I need a sheen to proctect them. In all honesty I like the look of them completely raw without finish just hamd planed best. Sadly that is not reality in this case.

So I got to sizing them down. I was gonna take them to work and use the slider. I got lazy and instead cut them to length and width on the slider. Well four of them, the larger one I went and borrowed a track saw to cut as it was longer than 52”

Sand

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Rout with 1/16 roundover for ease of assembling.

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Even after the router I go over the edge with a piece of 220. I do the same lightly in the inside edges of the stiles and rails. I also sand the flats to the left and right of the panel at this point as even with sharp helical head machine marks are present.

Pretty darn beautiful material this cvgayc. I think I’m in love?

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