Educate me on Shapers

[brent stanley]

Brent, very close to a 6208 in speed limits and capacities. The real deal for a machine that size. Sagar made wonderful machines. Dave

On this and other forums I see a lot of people asking about how large/heavy a cutter they can run on their particular shaper and it's really hard to offer advice if you don't know the machine. I understand very well that there are many more variables at play than bearing size/load rating but I can't help but think that with a bunch of assumptions we can at least create some general rules of thumb to use as a starting point for people. Too often people use HP as a gauge but we know that's not advisable, and we also know that manuals are often totally inadequate in this regard. Too many variables to even consider creating an ideal circumstances "bearing load rating to cutter mass/diameter" correlation? The engineering calculations would be easy for ideal circumstances, but it's the human elements that always make it hard.

[Mike Cutler]

Rod
I like that chart. I used to have the .pdf file you posted many years ago, but that was a few hard drive failures ago also.

I know we've kind of moved into more capable machines in this discussion, but related to that chart, is a "hack" I use for the Delta two speed shaper I own.
I can get the nominal 7Krpm,and 10Krpm as per the manual, but I also slide the motor up and down on the mounting plate to get an ~ 8Krpm and~ 9Krpm, by swapping the normal pulley configuration. Two speeds becomes four speeds. I Don't know if it would work for other two speed shapers of different colors.??? But it opens up more options. The 100mm cutters I've bought want to run 9krpm to 10Krpm, max. 7Krpm would put them just at the lower limit of the chart, or possibly off as is the case of my lock miter cutter.

[brent stanley]

https://www.harborfreight.com/1-hors...per-95668.html

Check it out.

Robust!

I'll get one and try this head in it:

Screenshot_20190102-124303_Instagram.jpg

[Mike Cutler]

Robust!

I'll get one and try this head in it:

Screenshot_20190102-124303_Instagram.jpg

Can I come watch?
I'm standing outside though.

I used to have this really cheesy, aluminum and stamped metal, Craftsman bench top router stand. That HF model in Lowell's post kind of reminds me of it. However, it does get positive reviews.

[brent stanley]

Can I come watch?
I'm standing outside though.

I used to have this really cheesy, aluminum and stamped metal, Craftsman bench top router stand. That HF model in Lowell's post kind of reminds me of it. However, it does get positive reviews.

You bring the sandbags!

[Jared Sankovich]

Load capacity of 6008 bearings are about 20-30% higher than 6205. I believe Felder uses 6009 in their 700 spindle cartridges. Dave

The grizzly/ baleigh/ jet? Version use the same 6008 top and bottom. 150 maybe 160mm seems like the reasonable working envelope on those.

Interestingly the little laguna has a similar design but uses double 6008s top and bottom.

The larger imports (laguna 45/1002, Axminister, bridgewood..etc (the 511,512,513) use double 6008s on top with a 620x on the bottom (and a much longer quil

[Mark Bolton]

welp, you've got two kinds of people here. Those that try to make money with their tools, and those that don't try.

This is not directed at you Martin but I would say gobbledeegook. I have made money with the cheaper shapers in the shop and I have been fine with them. Am I always looking for the $400 deal, of course. The bigger point may be that I never expected more of them than they could produce in the first place. Im not delusional. If I needed more of them than they were able to produce I would have upgraded OR kept my mouth shut for the fact I either didnt have enough profit in the bank to upgrade and had to swap out bearings repeatedly until I did, or that I worked for an employer that forced me to nurse along sub standard equipment. If I were left to becoming proficient with repeatedly swapping out bearings on a given tool Im either an idiot, or I dont have enough money in the bank to move that tool out of the shop. A couple swaps and Im in one column or the other.

If I had become proficient in swapping bearings on a substandard tool it would never be the fault of the tool.. it would be my own fault for expecting more from that tool regardless of its.. specs.. cost.. etc..

In my own world I would I have pounced on a $400 shaper with a bad E stop on Craigslist, in a heart beat. But they dont come up within 800 miles of me if that. So we make due. And again, we dont attempt to run 2600' or moulding through the shaper (as stated 150' is miserable enough).

The simple fact is as nauseous as it gets here listening to hobby folk try to get their equipment nasa tolerances, its equally as nauseous to listen to those who have "been down the road" tell everyone they need a massive machine to put a 1/4" roundover on the edge of a night stand.

Virtually any dog sh*t shaper in this thread will do 90% of anything anyone wants. Who in the heck is talking about running 1000's feet of moulding at $0.025/lf? Um... why? And then a mere shaper thread turns it to some small-package-behind-the-zipper stroke about a 7 head molder. Good lord people. Get real.
'

[Darcy Warner]

This is not directed at you Martin but I would say gobbledeegook. I have made money with the cheaper shapers in the shop and I have been fine with them. Am I always looking for the $400 deal, of course. The bigger point may be that I never expected more of them than they could produce in the first place. Im not delusional. If I needed more of them than they were able to produce I would have upgraded OR kept my mouth shut for the fact I either didnt have enough profit in the bank to upgrade and had to swap out bearings repeatedly until I did, or that I worked for an employer that forced me to nurse along sub standard equipment. If I were left to becoming proficient with repeatedly swapping out bearings on a given tool Im either an idiot, or I dont have enough money in the bank to move that tool out of the shop. A couple swaps and Im in one column or the other.

If I had become proficient in swapping bearings on a substandard tool it would never be the fault of the tool.. it would be my own fault for expecting more from that tool regardless of its.. specs.. cost.. etc..

In my own world I would I have pounced on a $400 shaper with a bad E stop on Craigslist, in a heart beat. But they dont come up within 800 miles of me if that. So we make due. And again, we dont attempt to run 2600' or moulding through the shaper (as stated 150' is miserable enough).

The simple fact is as nauseous as it gets here listening to hobby folk try to get their equipment nasa tolerances, its equally as nauseous to listen to those who have "been down the road" tell everyone they need a massive machine to put a 1/4" roundover on the edge of a night stand.

Virtually any dog sh*t shaper in this thread will do 90% of anything anyone wants. Who in the heck is talking about running 1000's feet of moulding at $0.025/lf? Um... why? And then a mere shaper thread turns it to some small-package-behind-the-zipper stroke about a 7 head molder. Good lord people. Get real.
'

Dude, get over yourself and off your soap box.

I merely stated that at one point I thought my pm27s was going to be a great machine, but soon realized that it was a light duty tin can with too big of a motor for what it was actually capable of doing. After the second bearing swap i bought an invicta and pawned the 27s off on some amish.

Soon after i realized i need a sash sticker for sash parts and then knew a moulder was the next logical step in my life. If you cant deal with my progression and can't handle the fact that a pm27s is really not that great of a machine, well though.

[Mark Bolton]

Dude, get over yourself and off your soap box.

I merely stated that at one point I thought my pm27s was going to be a great machine, but soon realized that it was a light duty tin can with too big of a motor for what it was actually capable of doing. After the second bearing swap i bought an invicta and pawned the 27s off on some amish.

Soon after i realized i need a sash sticker for sash parts and then knew a moulder was the next logical step in my life. If you cant deal with my progression and can't handle the fact that a pm27s is really not that great of a machine, well though.

10-4 skippy.

[Darcy Warner]

10-4 skippy.

Exactly what I expected from you.

I guess owning and running about 20 different shapers in the last 5 years means I probably have no clue how different size machines are built and what they can handle.

[Edwin Santos]

I was watching a woodworking show on PBS and my daughter asked me if I had all the tools the guy was using on the show, and then I realized that I didn't own a Shaper.

Hi, just out of curiosity, would you be considering a shaper if not for the question your daughter asked you while watching the PBS show?

Has not having a shaper restricted your woodworking so far? Especially seeing that you have not one but two router tables, one of which is sporting a PC7518 workhorse.

[Mark Bolton]

Exactly what I expected from you.

I guess owning and running about 20 different shapers in the last 5 years means I probably have no clue how different size machines are built and what they can handle.

And again... if you spent any amount of time becoming proficient at swapping our bearings at nascar speed you did so #1 because it's the machine you had to make do mmue with at the time. Or #2 its the machine you had to due with at the time. The next step is not a 4 ton seven head moulder. Try calibrating you delivery to the forum you get off posting to as opposed to propping yourself up.

I'm the first one to try to push the the boundaries of the hobby world.... your in the weeds dude. Deal with it.

[Darcy Warner]

And again... if you spent any amount of time becoming peoficciebt at swapping our bearings at nascar speed you did so for #1 because it's the machine you had to make do mmue with at the time. Or #2 its the machine you had to due with at the time. The next step is not a 4 ton seven head moulder. Try calibrating you delivery to the forum you get off posting to as opposed to propping yourself up.

I'm the first one to try to push the the boundaries of the hobby world.... your in the weeds dude. Deal with it.

No, I am just a really good mechanic. Last direct drive jointer bearing swap was just over an hour.

I skipped over the 5k pound P-22 moulder that was a good machine, but still not heavy duty enough for my needs.

[Mark Bolton]

Lord. Another luddite. The world is moving towards 10k+ and your hell bent on 40 year old mech. Good luck skippy.

See you at IWF next year.

[Darcy Warner]

Lord. Another luddite. The world is moving towards 10k+ and your hell bent on 40 year old mech. Good luck skippy.

See you at IWF next year.

I have no need for anything cnc controlled.

There is nothing made that compares to a 950 F&E or a Y36, my 107 year old 30" jointer is a perfect machine, my 70s mattison 404 was the pinnacle of US made SLRs,
There really is no better planer than a whitney or a buss 44.

My 1995 hydromat is in better shape than most 3 year old machines and it will run 200 feet a minute with jointed heads.

I don't need to be new machine cool, nor want to.