Educate me on Shapers

[Darcy Warner]

Chris
I will tell you for a damn certain fact that you do not have to spend that kind of money. Take away my drum sander and I barely have $6k wrapped up in all my stationary machines.
I've worked with, and known, some extremely talented cabinet makers that make nothing but high end cabinets for homes, boats, and airplanes. You want to see a kitchen remodel go close to seven figures, before appliances, these guys are the folks that get that work. They have basic machines. Maybe two or three of them that they never change and are maintained by a retired machinist out of General Dynamics, but their "game" is not to process linear feet per minute. Hell, I know a custom framer, that has 4, old DeWalt 705's, and he's been in the custom picture framing business for decades. This guy's work is hanging in museums.
I'll make an inflammatory statement here;
If a person cannot produce a quality cabinet set, or do good work, with a properly functioning, 3-5HP, Powermatic, Jet, Grizzly, Delta, Woodtek, etc shaper. They won't make any better product with a more expensive machine. They'll make the same quality faster, or they'll become more efficient at making an inferior product. There are 100's and 100's of custom cabinet shops all over the US that have what would be termed "light duty' shapers,and these folks are doing just fine with them!
It doesn't take expensive machines, any machine, to do superior work. It takes attention to detail, patience, willingness to learn, and developed skill. A machine is only a reflection of the user.

Buy a shaper, new or used, get a few cutters, maybe a basic shaker style cabinet set, that are within the machine's ability to use, and have at it.
The unfortunate part is that you may have to "teach yourself". But there is a lot of good info access available now to a person.

No one said you couldn't, but it comes down to the fact that even a pm27 and similar style machines have very small spindles, small cheap bearings and really are no good for heavy cuts or hours of use a day. It's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of experience using them.

It's also a matter of ease, speed and cut quality.

[Patrick Walsh]

I’ll sell you my F700Z sliding table single phase unit with 30mm, 1.25 spindle, variable speed and every accessory sold for it except tenon table and hood for $4K.

It’s plenty good for everything but really really heavy heads. Even then short runs are fine within reason. It seen very light use for its age.

You gotta come get it though

[Mike Cutler]

No one said you couldn't, but it comes down to the fact that even a pm27 and similar style machines have very small spindles, small cheap bearings and really are no good for heavy cuts or hours of use a day. It's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of experience using them.

It's also a matter of ease, speed and cut quality.

Darcy
No debates there. My only point, though long winded, was that Chris could certainly be successful with a "lighter duty machine" as long as he stayed within the capabilities of that machine.
To raise a panel may take two passes, followed by a light climb cut to achieve a quality surface that a larger, more powerful machine could achieve in a single pass. Interior door cutter sets, even if they're < 100mm, are still going to take two passes.An inch and quarter, or inch and a half, of material be removed at one time is a lot of lbs. force pressure on that spindle cartridge, even it's just pine, or poplar.
A lot also has to do with species of wood. Set up a cutter for walnut and then try to pass jatoba, doubling hardness, without changing anything, and that machine is going to let you know about it fast. BTDT, A single pass for walnut will probably take at least two for jatoba.

It's all good discussion. I know that I learn a lot from threads like this.

[Martin Wasner]

Martin found his used SAC and it only needed a stop button.

Close. The e-stop had to be pulled out... Slightly easier, but not by much. Darcy is in awe of my electrical skills, rightfully so.

$400 for a shaper that would probably be north of $10k to replace new. I only wish it had the dial, but not a big deal. Use it as a set and forget machine.
















Are you going to find a deal like that every day? NOPE. Once in a while, yep. Gotta be ready to snatch it up when they pop up. I've got a lot of equipment, most of it pretty nice, very little of it was purchased new by me.
I almost feel guilty, but it was listed as non-functioning and I would've paid $400 for just the spindle, never mind the other parts I could use to keep the others running. The only ones worse than the Italians with electricity are the english and cars.


Somebody please fix whatever is going on with this forum that it spins pictures. That is seriously tiresome.

[Darcy Warner]

I may have a dial that fits in the handwheel. Just some janky magnetic type thing. Upon further investigation, maybe yours was set up different.

[Jared Sankovich]

Close. The e-stop had to be pulled out... Slightly easier, but not by much. Darcy is in awe of my electrical skills, rightfully so.

$400 for a shaper that would probably be north of $10k to replace new. I only wish it had the dial, but not a big deal. Use it as a


Are you going to find a deal like that every day? NOPE. Once in a while, yep. Gotta be ready to snatch it up when they pop up. I've got a lot of equipment, most of it pretty nice, very little of it was purchased new by me.
I almost feel guilty, but it was listed as non-functioning and I would've paid $400 for just the spindle, never mind the other parts I could use to keep the others running. The only ones worse than the Italians with electricity are the english and cars.


Somebody please fix whatever is going on with this forum that it spins pictures. That is seriously tiresome.

Your $400 deal beat my $400 deal from a few months ago. This bridgewood 511 slider needed spindle bearings.
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[Martin Wasner]

I may have a dial that fits in the handwheel. Just some janky magnetic type thing. Upon further investigation, maybe yours was set up different.

Meh, not necessary. I can always stick a digital one on underneath too and put the display on top

[Darcy Warner]

Meh, not necessary. I can always stick a digital one on underneath too and put the display on top

It's an SAC one, but they were just janky magnetic things.

[Martin Wasner]

It's an SAC one, but they were just janky magnetic things.

My other two have a dial and counter. Pretty sure they're cable driven, but I don't know for certain.

[Van Huskey]

I’ll sell you my F700Z sliding table single phase unit with 30mm, 1.25 spindle, variable speed and every accessory sold for it except tenon table and hood for $4K.

If only you weren't 1600 miles from the shop I want a bigger shaper for I would be PMng you!. I have kinda settled on the F700Z as being the one I will buy if I get so impatient that I buy new. Near 10 grand is a lot of juice for a new one though, it is helping my patience.

[Darcy Warner]

My other two have a dial and counter. Pretty sure they're cable driven, but I don't know for certain.

Now I am going to have to look at my old pictures.

[Darcy Warner]

My other two have a dial and counter. Pretty sure they're cable driven, but I don't know for certain.

Ok, I forgot that yours has the spindle stuck at 90. Mine was a tilt, as all shapers should be. The dial I have was for the tilt and it was kinda lame. The other handle had the gauge and counter. I think it ran off something behind the handwheel. At one point I found a manual online for these.

I really need to put my SAC planer outfeed rollers back in. Only been sitting for a year. Lol

[Patrick McCarthy]

Gentlemen, your advice would be appreciated, especially as i don’t want to hurt myself or endanger anyone else. Some of the comments above make me question if the tooling below is too big or heavy. I tried to finds spec comparisons for the 2700 vs 27 but i am assuming there is some relation?? Thus far i have only used the cutters for one bathroom (my home) in walnut. Planning on doing our kitchen in maple. Am i courting disaster, or is it another situation where i have misunderstood or over interpreted some of the comments above?

I am a weekend warrior, I have a PM2700 shaper and, following the “cry once” theory, got a lot of good tooling. I got the Garniga kitchen set which has 3 discs - 2 of which are 160x 20x 31.75. I also got the Garniga Panel raiser which is 190 x 45 x 31.75.

I have several Zuani slot cutters which are 160 x . .. . X 31.75.

I also have a Klein insert head which is 131 x 90 x 31.75

Thank you in advance, Patrick

[David Kumm]

You certainly bought higher end tooling than shaper but I don't think you are in danger. Do you have a feeder for it? The 2700 is a made in Taiwan version of the old 27. You want a good jig for the copes and probably will need to run some multiple passes but I would not worry that you will be hurt. The bearings will fail more quickly but I bet you will get several kitchens before that happens. Have you checked runout? If that is good- less than .002 at top of spindle, you should get good quality cuts if you don't abuse the machine. Dave

[Patrick McCarthy]

Dave, thank you. Yes, i got the PM 4 wheel power feeder. Several passes are fine,especially if that saves the bearings.

If i had to do it over again, i would have taken Joe Calhoun’s class first and then gotten a shaper . . . . Rather than bassackwards like i did. That said, if i tripped across a single phase heavy duty shaper i might be tempted to replace it. I have tried to understand all the postings about vfd’s and rpc’s For a 3 phase . . . But electricity remains a mystery to me.