Sanding Sealer Before Dye

[Edward Weingarden]

I'm about to experiment with dyes and would like to know if I should apply the a sanding sealer to the piece before applying the dyes. Thanks.

[John Keeton]

Not if you want the dye to actually color the wood. Sanding sealer does just that - seals the wood. With rare exceptions, dye is applied to bare wood. Be aware, however, that your sanding must be flawless as the dye will show every scratch. I sand to 400 and use 0000 to reveal flaws in the sanding.

[Edward Weingarden]

Thanks John

[John K Jordan]

....I sand to 400 and use 0000 to reveal flaws in the sanding.

Another thing that works for me is wipe the sanded wood down with naptha. As the wet surface starts to go from glossy to dull I look at the surface with a glancing light and any scratches are easy to see.

You can also use alcohol for this but naptha dries a lot faster.

JKJ

[Doug Hepler]

Edward,

The short answer to your question is no, as John Keeton said. There is an exception called washcoating that is used to prevent or reduce blotching in some species of wood. There is a technique called toning that is used over a film finish to tweak the tone. Based on your question I doubt either of these advanced techniques will apply. If you want to get into this subject you need to state the species of wood and the approximate degree of color you are trying to achieve.

Doug

[Dave Fritz]

In this video Russ Fairfield seals the wood with lacquer before applying wax, then dye. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGjvoU9Bi3U I've done it this way only I used Danish oil as the sealer and a solvent to remove excess dye. In the second video of the series he doesn't seal the wood. I guess it depends on the wood your using and what you want to achieve.

[Edward Weingarden]

Interesting videos Dave. Thanks for the link.

[Julie Moriarty]

It depends on the wood. If you try to dye pine, it could turn out blotchy and look worse than when you started. Apply a sealer and the color comes out more even. But it will be lighter. Certain woods are not good candidates for using dye. I've sampled dye on oak and I'm not impressed. You have to experiment before committing.

My favorite wood to dye is hard maple, especially curly maple. Quilted maple is hit and miss. Sometimes the quilted absorbs unevenly. Maple is a difficult wood to stain but dye loves it. This is the side of a Strat made with figured maple. I slathered on black dye, sanded it back and slathered on red dye. You have to flood it on and let it sit before wiping off to get the full effect. You can see how deeply the dye penetrated the softer wood (black) and how the red complimented that over the harder wood.


With Honduran mahogany, I've had decent results. African mahogany is hit or miss. With walnut you can use a yellow or orange dye to really make it pop, especially if you are using a waterborne finish on it. WB finishes alone tend to create a rather lackluster grain pop.

I've had good luck with sapele. Part of a figured sapele slab I have was used to make the body of another Strat. I used yellow dye to pop the grain and sealed it with 10 coats of lacquer. Without the dye it looked pretty blah. Since that picture was taken the sapele has darkened quite a bit. It now looks more reddish brown. So aging is another factor in choosing which color dye to use.


Whatever you do, experiment with the woods as well as different color dyes. In my last house I mixed up at least a dozen dye recipes for cabinet doors and drawer fronts made from genuine mahogany with sapele panels before committing. The weeks of testing paid off.

[Edward Weingarden]

Thanks for the insights and photos.