No, I haven't. Are they superior to PM?Originally Posted by Brian Holcombe
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No, I haven't. Are they superior to PM?
"Anything seems possible when you don't know what you're doing."
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I haven’t tried the PM chisels but Nakahashi are excellent.
Bumbling forward into the unknown.
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The Nakahashi, and Star-M brands are the same, only sold under the different brand names depending on where they're sold.
They're sold as the "Premium" line by Lee Valley, Woodworkers Supply, and others. If sharpened with the diamond cones sold by LV, and the burr taken by an x-fine diamond paddle, you dare not touch the edge to see how sharp it is. They're all I buy, even for a small job.
There is another good type, made in the UK, but they're not that easy to come by, and I forget the name. Jack uses them.
Last edited by Tom M King; 12-22-2018 at 8:44 AM.
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Tom, those are probably ‘Harima’ sold in the UK which are actually Nakahashi as well, with a 13/16” shank.
Careful tuning of the auger and polishing of the chisel make it a very easy tool to work with. I polish the exterior with a Nakayama Asagi (8k) and it zips through ash/oak and is not terribly difficult heading into maple.
Bumbling forward into the unknown.
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I do similar before a chisel goes into the machine, but in the middle of long runs, I'll occasionally hit the outside of the chisel with the x-fine paddle without taking it off the machine (kept flat of course). I made the mistake of touching one once to see if it was sharp after such touching up. It was.
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I like the Nakahashi as well. I have bought them from Lee Valley and Advance Machinery in the U.K. for metric sizes. They are easy to keep sharp with the cones and files Lee Valley sells. I had some original Wadkin and Greenlee chisels that came with the Wadkin DM and like the Japanese ones better.
I don’t get as clean a mortise pocket as Brian’s pictures show because I am fighting incorrect bushing sizes for the Japanese chisels. Need to get some custom made.
I had a benchtop mortiser for odd jobs and found it pretty useless. Bought a used Wadkin DM for not much more than the bench top cost and it’s about 100 times better. I would say a bench top with a XY table would be an improvement over what I had.
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I'll take one for Xmas if one of you rich woodworkers would care to be my secret santa.
[OP]
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Well, as I said I bought the Baileigh - just not the floor model. I got the bench top model for 400 bucks delivered (delivery was 75). Several reasons for my change of heart: 15% discount; having never used a mortiser I couldn't pop for an expensive tool until I know more about it and what I really like or dislike about using it; I wanted to stay with Baileigh because if I do move up to a floor model, it will be the Baileigh and I wanted to see what the build quality was; if I move up I can always CL the one I just got; it has an x-y table and seems to have a robust clamping system; and the unit can be unbolted and reversed. It got delivered a bit ago. I'll take some pics and let you know what my initial impressions are.
Stand for something, or you'll fall for anything.
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With the XY axis and a good clamp, I don't think the bench top unit gives up anything, other than a little flexibility of where you can position it for doing long pieces.
My PM719 is floor standing, but actually sits quite low. I find myself sitting on a rolling mechanics stool, holding my dust collection hose with my left hand and pulling the drilling lever with the other. None of this would be easy standing up and I'm only 5' 7".
The bench top model will allow you to mount/clamp it at a move convenient height.
Had I seen this unit, I probably would have save myself $1K and gone with it rather than the PM719.
[OP]
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The MC 625 mortiser was well packed and lubed. No rust. And, importantly, fully assembled.
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But several cosmetic issues, one from a piece rubbing on the frame, mostly paint issues.
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This one scared me until I put 3 different straight edges on the table and found it as flat as I could determine. Still............
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The head travels firmly up and down, the clamp is extremely strong, the x-y table moves smoothly and is tight. At first there was a lot of side to side slop in the forward and back table (y table?) and I was getting ready to call Baileigh. But I noticed three set screws right below the table and these tightened up the travel very nicely. Too bad they are not documented anywhere. See, I learned something already.
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Strangely, there is no serial number on it. But they sent me a spiffy hat.
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The 3/8" chisel that comes with was chucked without any touch up and produced a couple of mortises with ease. The unit runs extraordinarily quiet. Barely a hum. I found no perceptible run out with the bit chucked, and the bit and the chisel were easy to set and stayed solidly set. The one major draw back is that the clamp has 3 sets of holes in the table so you can reposition the clamp to accommodate pieces of different widths, but the clamp is held with 2 bolts that can be hard to reach and a pain in the ass to reposition. The depth stop seems a bit flimsy but we'll see how it goes. It has left and right hand stops that seem to work fine, and are removable. The documentation is crap as usual. It's heavy - 110 lbs so it's probably going to stay right were it is. All in all I'm pretty happy with it out of the gate, but we'll see how it holds up. Being as massive as it is I have high hopes that it will last a while. And for $325 it seems like a very good deal. FYI, I think today is the last day of the 15% off everything Baileigh sale.
Stand for something, or you'll fall for anything.
[OP]
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And the fence was square to the table.
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Stand for something, or you'll fall for anything.
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Very cool Bill. Enjoy your new baby!
Fred
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
“If you want to know what a man's like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors, not his equals.”
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That's a nice looking machine Bill
I really like that X-Y vise base!!! That's cool.
I'd be interested to get your impressions of it, once you've had a chance to really "put the wood to it".
"The first thing you need to know, will likely be the last thing you learn." (Unknown)
[OP]
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So I've made 40 or so mortises with this Baileigh benchtop machine and am very pleased with it. It's heavy and solid. All the mortises so far have been in QSWO and it has not bogged down at all from lack of power. It did get jammed - wood in the chisel - when I was too aggressive, but other than that one time it has performed great. The x-y table is fantastic: moves very smoothly and precisely, and the x table stays put while the table moves laterally. I've never used a mortise machine before but I'm extraordinarily glad I paid attention to you folks and got one with the x-y table. The depth stops are pretty cheesy. They are plastic rings that get tightened on a rod and limit the movement of a small metal bracket attached to the head. (red circles in one of the pics) Changing and setting the bit and the chisel are pretty easy. Plenty of room to get to the chuck. Wish the chisel was held in by something other than an allen screw and I may replace it with something that does not require a tool to adjust.
Speaking of tools, the is no tool rest or storage system, so I put a magnet on the base and that keeps the chuck key and the allen wrench solidly attached and ready. The up and down movement of the head assembly is smooth and easy, and returns to the top with some force. The handle is ok - it's a handle, ya know? The angled clamp is very solid, and locks the work piece down securely. Have not had any piece rise up with the chisel yet. But moving the clamp head is a pain in the butt. One of the pictures shows how the bolts are hidden below the cast of the clamp, and is kinda hard to get to. To avoid having to move it too often I made a 3/4" spacer with magnets mortised into the back of it that gives me a bit more versatility and I don't need to move the clamp head as much. But there are 3 positions that the head can be bolted at and gives you a fairly wide platform.
In the pile of wood there are some thru mortises that came out better than I thought they would. Required a bit of clean up but not much. It came with 1 3/8" chisel which was pretty sharp and cut nicely out of the box. All in all, for 340 bucks I think it's a real keeper, and a great addition to the shop.2019-01-14_20h11_37.jpg20190113_130123.jpg20190113_130139.jpg20190113_130145.jpg20190113_150710.jpg
Last edited by Bill Carey; 01-14-2019 at 9:35 PM. Reason: forgot the pics
Stand for something, or you'll fall for anything.
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I have a Baileigh MC-1000. I took it off of the base and mounted it to my bench. I have being using it more and more recently. The one change I have made is to remove the stop rods and replace them with 3/8"-16 threaded rod. The stop collars were never good at locking down on the rod and moved if I hit them too hard. I did buy my machine as refurbished. The X-Y base/table is very usefull. It is important to get good quality chisels. Not too mention the cheaper ones are a different size and do not fit my collet. I find that the Powermatic chisels (about $50 each) are a good fit and seem to be working well. I just did a bunch of ash mortises this weekend.
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