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Thread: How good is good enough? Milling for glueup

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Crystal Lake, IL
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    516

  2. #17
    The technique that has worked well for me is to:


    1. Joint the best face to 60-80% clear and flat. If twisted or overly out of flat, use scrub plane to hit high spots.
    2. Plane the opposite side and on additional passes flip as needed to plane worse side.
    3. if the glued up panel will fit in my planer, keep the individual pieces as thick as possible running all pieces through the planer together.
    4. Joint the best edge, rip 1/16 over width as needed, then joint final edge.
    5. Arrange for grain match, glue trying to keep width under planer max. I use a pair of cauls with all thread clamping them flat.
    6. After glue dries, treat the glued up panels as an individual board and go to step 1, or just pass through planer if adequate, or hand plane to smooth out as needed. It's some work, but its enjoyable quiet work.

    i know this sounds like a lot, but it goes quick.
    I especially like the comment of jointing the edges with a handplane on side if needed.
    Stevo
    Last edited by stevo wis; 12-19-2018 at 1:17 AM.

  3. #18
    So, I have a friend that used to say that Dale Nish would tell him "If you don't have time to do it right, where will you find time to do it over?"

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Crystal Lake, IL
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    516
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Smira View Post
    So, I have a friend that used to say that Dale Nish would tell him "If you don't have time to do it right, where will you find time to do it over?"
    Very wise words, so rarely heeded.
    Jeff

  5. #20
    Generally I think its a bad idea to force boards into alignment not only because it introduces stress to the panel, but because inevitably it will leave glue lines. That said, depending on the width, the type of wood, and how off it is there are instances where I don't worry about it too much I just clamp and go. For example, clamping out a 1/8" gap in 3" wide softwood is much different then 9" wide hardwood.

    I use hand planes to fine tune the joint. I get them as close as possible and usually create a spring joint by taking a few extra thou off the middle of the board.

    We already had the debate about glueing a handplaned joint, didn't we?

    OOPS I think I misread your post. You're talking about the faces, right? Slight bows are not an issue. You can use alignment aids like biscuits or Dominoes, but I use clamp pressure and a rubber hammer. I'm always gluing a top up thick to give me room to fine tune.

    Well it still boils down to making sure your edge jointing goes right.
    Last edited by Robert Engel; 12-19-2018 at 1:38 PM.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Northern Virginia
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    401
    I think people are confusing edge flatness vs face flatness. I'm reading the OPs question as having some bow left after jointing (not edge crook or kink) which depending on the length of board is normal imho.

    Dominos, biscuits, glue joints or cauls.
    20171212_213354.jpg
    Last edited by Jared Sankovich; 12-19-2018 at 5:01 PM.

  7. #22
    I have a delta DJ-20. I use a roller off the outfeed to help support the boards as the come off but that is more to keep the boards from falling off than to keep them parallel to the tables. I try to use hand pressure to keep the boards flat at the end of a run.

    I've made a few recommendations to the machine based on what others have said, but results seem inconsistent. I was able to get several boards off pretty darn straight, and built a tabletop that came out great from it but other boards I'm just really having no luck. Maybe its technique, but I don't really have a teacher to show me what I'm doing wrong. I'm just a guy who had some fun in woodshop class back in high school and likes to work with his hands and build things. I realize as I go on, I'll get better at this craft, but I feel like holding this build up until I get things perfect is not going to help me as it feels like I'm just delaying and not really getting anywhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by glenn bradley View Post
    Place holder . . .

    Sorry guys. I had more to say than I wanted to say on a phone and I thought I would be right back . . .

    I hate to see people become frustrated with a situation that seems to show no improvement despite our dedication. We've all been there on some facet of the craft at some point. I didn't see anyone asking if the OP was just setting himself up for failure; over-driving the machine's headlights, so to speak.

    What size/model of jointer are we talking about here? If you are trying for 72" lengths of 8/4 on jointer with a 30" infeed and no additional support it is a non-starter as far as achieving well jointed stock is concerned. I have 40-odd inches of infeed which is plenty for most furniture parts but, I still find myself doing this often enough:

    Attachment 399080 . Attachment 399079

    There are always things that will push the limits of your machines. The jointer is one of those machines that relies on a consistent feed path for proper operation. If you do not supply that you will get sub-optimal results.

    As to your specific question, I always find it is safest to answer "if it is close enough for you, it is close enough". You are not required to make other people happy in this craft unless your income relies on it.

  8. #23
    Sorry for the confusion,
    I've got a planer. I was talking about getting 1 face perfectly flat prior to going to the jointer.

  9. #24
    If your boards are that far out use liquid nails.

  10. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by john schnyderite View Post
    Sorry for the confusion,
    I've got a planer. I was talking about getting 1 face perfectly flat prior to going to the jointer.
    Where are you located John? I ask just to be clear on terminology & what you are talking about. By planer, do you mean the machine that has the cutter head & feeder rollers overhead to push the board through? If so, then that is not the right tool to use 1st. The jointer is what is used to get 1 face flat, then the board is run through the planer with the flat side down. It will plane the top side flat & parallel to the bottom side.

    You can do without a jointer by making a sled to run the board through the planer on, effectively using the planer as a jointer. You can Google how to do that, there are tons of videos on the subject.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
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    SE PA - Central Bucks County
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    Frank, he was confirming he has both a jointer and a thickness planer. He's struggling with the flattening technique on the jointer.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  12. #27
    Bingo -- Jim's got it.

    I've been keeping at it and getting better results putting less pressure on the boards as I feed them through. You can see a bit on light under a straight edge towards the end of most boards, but I rough cut them large enough that I should be able to make that waste area anyway. Thanks all for chiming in. Are there any NJ'ers on here? I'm wondering if there are any woodworking clubs or communities in my area where I can learn from others.



    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    Frank, he was confirming he has both a jointer and a thickness planer. He's struggling with the flattening technique on the jointer.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
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    You actually shouldn't be putting "any" pressure on the boards when jointing that's not necessary to keep them on the table...as little pressure as you can get away with because you want to shave off the high spots. If you compress the board, you'll never get it flat and end up with a very wide toothpick.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Griswold Connecticut
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    6,078
    John

    Now I understand what is happening better.

    I have a 6" Jet jointer and it has been used to joint boards 10+' long. Both edge and face. Your jointer is little bit wider, so definitely doable.

    It's critical to be able to control that board coming off the back of the jointer, and controlling the tail end prior to hitting the in feed table. I have these two Rigid "Flip Top" stands that I use, and my table saw is at the same height as the jointer outfeed table, so that helps stabilize the material.
    I did some really long pieces of 2" Jatoba that were wicked heavy and ended up throwing together two extension tables. You have to control that board all the way through the jointer. Long boards for a person alone are difficult.
    I mark the face of the wood I am jointing with a pencil, so I can keep track of my progress. Mark, Joint, flip over, mark again.The pencil marks will show you where material is not being removed after each pass.
    On boards that have a twist I'll flip the board end for end to take down the high corners, and then joint as normal. The is a limitation with shorter bed jointers that needs to be accommodated.
    Do not press down on the board after it passes over the cutter head. Apply only enough pressure to keep it moving forward. The initial section of the leading edge, the board made contact with the cutter head, is your new reference. It's not uncommon to have only the first 6" and last 6" of a long board actually make contact with the cutter head on the initial pass. You mark with the pencil so that you can keep track of the material being removed. More and more should be removed from each end, moving toward the middle of the board.
    You can put a board through a jointer convex, or concave, with or without twist, and be successful. Most people start with the board convex to the cutter head, but it doesn't have to, though it is easier.
    One more issue you could be having is improperly dried wood. Sometimes wood will continue to move on you during the entire milling process, even in a time frame as short as between passes on a jointer, as it releases stress. This can be frustrating and lead you down the path, so to speak.
    Use a pencil, or piece of chalk.
    Last edited by Mike Cutler; 12-23-2018 at 9:33 AM.
    "The first thing you need to know, will likely be the last thing you learn." (Unknown)

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Doylestown, PA
    Posts
    5,720
    As Jim says, as little down pressure when face jointing as you can get by with. I use a 'shoe' with a heel to be able to push horizontally without pushing down. Pushing down while face jointing is like trying to flatten a board with a planer - you'll end up with a thinner but still bowed or twisted board. I also cut boards to rough length before flattening. I learned this lesson soon after getting a wide jointer. Started out with a bowed poplar (thank goodness) board. I got it flat over its 8' length but it was about 3/8" thick on the ends and 15/16" thick in the middle. The shorter the board the less that has to be removed to get one face flat. Of course if you're building an 8' table shorter boards are not an option. What's that saying, too soon old too late smart?

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