stair tread finishing

[Art Mann]

I think you may be talking about what is called "cathedral grain" in flat sawn red and white oak. If so, I definitely agree that the grain looks better muted than emphasized. It would look better still quarter sawn.

By uniform, I don't mean from one plank to another. But the dark grain pattern (those "rings") stands out too much. On my laminate, there is the same pattern, but not as visible. But I agree with you that oak usually doesn't blotch thus don't need conditioner. This is purely for cosmetic reasons.

[joe webb]

Another finishing question. I have few large (triangle) winder steps, and for them, I am using 6" wide tongue and groove matching white oak flooring planks. I watched several flooring install videos on Youtube and they sand the floor after installation. Is that to even out and flatten everything?

Given, I am trying to finish as much as possible before installing (to minimize the indoor odor and loss of use of the stairs), is there any use in staining them before install? The stain would look quite uneven after sanding. Especially if there are "major" humps to be sanded down after installation.

Anyway I can avoid staining and finishing in place? The steps are not that big. 40" 60" 72" are the lengths of the sides

[Mel Fulks]

The sand after install just recognizes that they usually need sanding after install and trimming. When I made stairs the
company rule was sand the treads with 80 grit , that was mainly just to remove any planer marks.

[joe webb]

The sand after install just recognizes that they usually need sanding after install and trimming. When I made stairs the company rule was sand the treads with 80 grit , that was mainly just to remove any planer marks.

Thanks Mel. Do you sand after installation because it is faster to sand a large area OR to even out where the planks connect?

[Mel Fulks]

Not sure I understand "where the planks connect". If you mean the glue joints usually needed to make the needed tread
width ,the answer is the stairs were ready, in my opinion,to be finished . But the carpenters did not remove their shoes to work! So they usually made some tracks and marks. The string boards usually got painted on site and we made sure they
were ready for that "step"

[joe webb]

Not sure I understand "where the planks connect". If you mean the glue joints usually needed to make the needed tread
width ,the answer is the stairs were ready, in my opinion,to be finished . But the carpenters did not remove their shoes to work! So they usually made some tracks and marks. The string boards usually got painted on site and we made sure they
were ready for that "step"

"where planks connect" I mean where the tongue slide into the groove. I am not making a big tread by gluing the planks together. I treat the big steps as just a normal floor. Here is picture of a larger step and the flooring tongue and groove.

But back to my original question, what is the reason for sanding flooring after installation and can it be avoided?


Dusheme.jpgPhoto Dec 25, 10 15 20 PM.jpg

[glenn bradley]

I would use a floor finish, rather than a polyurethane. Some call polyurethane a floor finish, but I'm talking about professional floor finishes. I'd never use regular poly on a floor.

Hi Tom, I'd love to tap into your experience and ask what brand/type has become your go-to for general (non-specific restoration) floor use. Thanks.

[Tom M King]

I used Moisture Cure Urethane for about 40 years, but the past five or six, mostly Bona Traffic HD. If you want to hold the natural color on something, first coat is Bona Naturale. Naturale, while low VOC, is an acid cure urethane, so you still should wear a respirator.

MCU is probably the highest VOC there is. It has every solvent on the dangerous solvents chart, except for gasoline, and outgasses enough to make any mammal pass out. It does dry really fast, but it can only be used in an unlived in house for at least a couple of days.

MCU is also the most durable surface I've put anywhere. We have it on the linoleum tile floor in our dogroom, which is still scratch free after at least ten years. Also have in on the floors in our house that are now 38 years old, and it looks fine. I also sprayed a white MCU on an airplane hanger floor, and the last I heard, it still looks great. It might look like polyurethane, but no comparison in durability. One fast chance to put it down right. You can't go back over it while in the middle of applying a coat.

The old, museum houses I work on have unfinished floors, always have been, and will be.

Any of that needs to be screened between coats, but MCU has to be done early the next morning, or it won't cut at all.

I very infrequently do floors these days, so haven't tried any of the newer, fancier finishes yet.

Bona Traffic HD is pretty foolproof. I don't have any personal experience living on one, but have never heard a complaint. Follow the directions. It's been several years since I applied any, so would have to read directions about what to precede it with now. The last two floors we did, Naturale was the first coat, but there is probably something cheaper.

[joe webb]

Is Bona Traffic HD water or oil based? I am using oil-based stain. Can it go directly on it? There is little info on the sellers' websites.

[Tom M King]

As far as I know, everything Bona makes is waterbourne. I did a google search, and there is much information available. It turned up some forum conversations by pro floor finishing groups. I'd suggest to go by their recommendations.

Personally, I have never put Traffic over any kind of stain. If I did, it would have been Bona stain. MCU will work over oil based stain, but you don't want to use that in a house you're living in, and probably can't even buy it in California, and other places.

[Joe Hendershott]

I recently put down about 2000 sf of white oak and 28 treads I did myself. We wanted a different look and used a Bona NordicSeal to get a lighter look, then followed it with their Mega Clear HD which is also a 2 part product. Treads are of course easier than the rest of the floor but the Bona products all were pretty easy. You will want some sort of sealer first for sure. The Mega Clear is just that- stays clear without color, which is what we wanted. A few things to note, like the others stated above:

Most flooring products are only available in gallons.

Once the 2 are mixed you have limited time to use them- usually several hours. They come in bottles with gradients on the side so you can mix less than a gallon.

Like most water based finishes they dry pretty quickly but will still take a week to fully cure so you have to be gentle for a while.

I would easily use the Bona products again, they are top notch.

[Tom M King]

To answer the floor sanding question: It's sanded to make the top perfectly flat, and flush across all the joints. If you don't sand it, there will be little sharp ridges at most of the joints. That's the reason that prefinished flooring has a V-joint, or something similar, on all edges. Being wood, it's not possible to mill it so everything will remain exactly flush from the mill.

Also, the surface is not finely sanded enough to start with for finish.

[joe webb]

To answer the floor sanding question: It's sanded to make the top perfectly flat, and flush across all the joints. If you don't sand it, there will be little sharp ridges at most of the joints. That's the reason that prefinished flooring has a V-joint, or something similar, on all edges. Being wood, it's not possible to mill it so everything will remain exactly flush from the mill.

Also, the surface is not finely sanded enough to start with for finish.

Thanks Tom. Thus there is no point on staining and clear coating the flooring before installation as the final sanding would take it off, right?

Is the clear coat thick enough to smooth out the surface?

I am using oil based stain and conditioner, and even in the garage, with the door pulled up, it smells quite a bit.
Really trying to avoid applying it in the house. Given it is now winter, we can't fully open all windows.
I don't mind sanding/staining/clear coating plank by plank even if it takes lots of time.

How about I cut and dry fit first, sand it to flat, then take it back to the garage and stain/finish, only then glue them down. Would that work?

[Joe Hendershott]

Using water based would make more sense and if you stick with the same line- like Bona then you'll have no issues with everything working together. I might have missed why you are using an oil based stain?

[joe webb]

Using water based would make more sense and if you stick with the same line- like Bona then you'll have no issues with everything working together. I might have missed why you are using an oil based stain?

Hi Joe,

So the story goes like this. I called several flooring stores around me and none of them even know what Bona is and I didn't want to buy a stain online without seeing it as I wanted it to be close to the color of my current laminate floor. So I went to Sherwin Williams and they even offered to do a custom color match. They did come pretty close so I went w/ that color. They suggested oil-based because it would be more durable and easier to apply. Given I am a beginner at this, it seems that's the best option.

I believe there is no problem applying a water-based clear finish over oil-based stain as long as the stain is fully dry (several days). But I am guessing you are suggesting water stain as well. Unfortunately, it's too late as I already stained the treads and half of my flooring w/ the custom color.

I was planning/hoping on finishing everything in the garage and only apply that last (3rd) clear coat finish after installation.