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Thread: Considering first festool

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Parrish View Post
    Well, I’m not a billionaire but I find sanding with my ridgid ROS and Ridgid 16 gal shopvac attached to to be tedious and difficult to manipulate for any length of time. I do run a hepa. At in the shop vac but I’m sure there are better extraction options. But The ergonomics and the stiffness of the 2.5” hose make it a bear. Plus the vibration just kills my hands over time.

    I dont have the compressor power power to run a pneumatic with only a 20gal Quincy compressor and no room to add a larger one.

    I am also looking at the Mirka Deros system in comparison.

    So, I’m interested in the festool, or other, that would improve on ergonomics and dust collection for general sanding on everything from cutting boards to furniture to whatever.
    If you get a more expensive sander and extractor, your experience will probably be better as in quieter with less buzz in your hand. Strong continuous vibration in your hand is really no joke, we're talking nerve damage.

    The final answer to your sanding woes should include some overhead hose hangers IMO.

    Does anyone remember that PWW article with the DIY rolling downdraft station and hose hangers?

    Getting the hose up off your work will help a lot. I wrangle various cords all day at my real job and the correct staging of them makes a huge difference in my ability to enjoy life.
    Last edited by Kory Cassel; 12-14-2018 at 9:39 PM.
    Dojo Kun, 1: Be humble and polite.

  2. #47
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    I have a couple of festool sanders (DTS and a week-old ETS-EC 125/3), domino xl and the 1400of router. They are all great tools and are a pleasure to use. Don't think you need to buy a festool dust extractor to get optimal dust collection from these... I use a Ridgid wet/dry vac and have it plugged into an autovac switch so it turns on/off automatically. I can't imagine any other dust collector would do a better job as I never see any dust from the sanders or domino (the router is a different story). I added some insulation material to the head of the Ridgid shop vac. It is already a relatively quiet vac and the noise insulation made it a little bit better.

  3. #48
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    Have you tried the newer festool sanders. The ets-ec models. If so I’m interested how the Mirka is better? I’ve thought about buying one but ended up with the festool.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zac wingert View Post
    As a hobbiest, it just seems silly. I
    Whether someone is a hobbyist, a pro or somewhere in between really is irrelevant when it comes to tool choices. There's no problem with anyone feeling that something isn't right for them, whether for financial reasons or other factors, but that's always an individual choice. As you can see from reading other responses in this thread and in other threads about various "levels" of gear, we're all very different in what we individually value or perceive our needs to be. In the context of this thread and what the OP is asking about, Festool does provide high quality products with a well designed system for integrating them. A healthy population of woodworkers appreciate that and have no regrets with embracing that system and investing in it. For others, different choices are perfect for their own perceived needs.

    I originally used the PC333 ROS sanders when I started woodworking. I don't recall what they cost back then but it was "reasonable". The issue was that I kept having to buy new ones because they just didn't last more than a year or two. (and with limited use, too) And there was that vibration problem I already mentioned previously that just pain made me hurt. I bought my Festool 150/3 in about 2005 or so. I still use it daily and have had to change the hook & loop pad twice over that time at $45 cost each change. That's a dozen years or so. So taking the current cost of the equivalent machine ($380 ... which is more than I originally paid) plus two pad changes, I have about an annual cost of under $40 for a tool that doesn't make my hands and wrists hurt and get numb and I can sand for hours with no discomfort other than normal fatigue. The dust extraction is superior by design and that's important, AFAIK. For me, it's worth it for sure. For others...maybe not.
    Last edited by Jim Becker; 12-14-2018 at 8:00 PM.
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    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  5. #50
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    Aiken, SC
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    I have half a dozen Festool products including the two random orbitals you may want to consider. My very first Festool purchase was the ETS 125 REQ and their CT36 Vac. I've had it for six years and still use it in many projects as a finish sander with 150 and 180 grit paper. Two years ago I purchased a second 5" the ETS EC125/3. I already had a big investment in 5" paper and the majority of my sanding is 2.5" rails and stiles so the 5" models are fine for me.

    The main difference between these two Festool sanders and all the previous random orbitals I had from Dewalt, Milwaukee, and Bosch is less vibration, better dust collection (the center hole really makes a difference), and better ergonomics/balance. The real benefit at the end of an hour of sanding is I don't feel worn out and I don't feel any ill effects from dust, which means I can move onto other woodworking tasks without feeling like I need to take a break.

    With the two sanders I always start with the EC125/3 - this is one of those special Festool tools that really is a cut above everything (just like the Mirka which was the original one in this class). It feels more powerful and really does get the job done twice as fast as the 125 REQ at the lower grits I use - 100 and 120. When you put a dust hose on it the dust collection is great, but you do need to keep forward pressure on it or it will tip backward with the weight of the hose. It's not a burden, just a change in technique, and I'm talking like keep a couple of fingers toward the front of the sander it's that easy to move around. The 125 REQ still gets used. I have hand issues from overuse and I purposely like to change my hand position during long tasks, so I do grab the 125 REQ for 150 and 180. It actually stays upright more easily with the hose on than the EC. Part of the Festool "system benefit" is that I just change the power cord and dust hose between tools, just slightly longer than changing sand paper.

    You are considering one sander. The 125 REQ at around $200 is a great finish sander. And yes for the first four years when I owned it I used it for all my sanding from 100 grit on up. But it took a while at the lower grits, and I still preferred it over my Dewalt because of the ergonomics. The EC125/3 at around $400 is a very expensive sander, but it will handle all your sanding needs from the lower grits through the fine and sanding might actually change from a task you dread into one that is a pleasure to do with a great tool.

    For me it was a no-brainer since one visit to the doctor or physical therapist for hand issues covered the cost difference between the two and I do a lot of sanding, but everyone has different priorities. I would just recommend you get to a Festool dealer and run each one for about ten minutes using different grits to see if the differences are noticeable for you.

    Without preaching I will just say that the "system value" of incremental Festool products is real. I move between their track saw, domino, and sander on an MFT/3 table for hours at a time and they really do work together, making the individual tools better.

  6. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Gaskin View Post
    Have you tried the newer festool sanders. The ets-ec models. If so I’m interested how the Mirka is better? I’ve thought about buying one but ended up with the festool.
    I haven't tried the brushless ones so I can't talk to stock removal or scratch. The shape and size is wrong looking at them. The Dynabrade shape is really tough to beat.

    Does Festool have a hose with an integrated cord? I'm guessing they do? If not, that would be a big push for me to the mirka as well.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Wasner View Post
    Does Festool have a hose with an integrated cord? I'm guessing they do? If not, that would be a big push for me to the mirka as well.
    I can't answer that, but I bought a roll of double sided Velco, hooks one side, loops the other. I use 3 or 4 strips and attach the power cord to the dust hose. I also use a Dog grooming arm, about $30 from Amazon, clamped to the edge of my table, to support the dust hose and power cord;

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Wasner View Post
    Does Festool have a hose with an integrated cord? I'm guessing they do? If not, that would be a big push for me to the mirka as well.
    They do but it is not like the Mirka Coaxial cord as in the cord is not literally built into the hose but is in a sleeve outside the actual hose. I make my own with braided sleeving from Wirecare (available from a lot of places) and heat shrink tubing. I have them made up for both Festool and Mirka. One of the things I like about these hoses is the corrugations from the hose don't have a chance to catch on any thing.
    Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.

    Deep thought for the day:

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  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Fritz View Post

    With the two sanders I always start with the EC125/3 - this is one of those special Festool tools that really is a cut above everything (just like the Mirka which was the original one in this class).
    Bit of trivia. The Mirka was also not the first commercially available low profile brushless sander, it was actually the Porter Cable 390 which came out in 2009. It was one of those unusual products which was ahead of its time. Its demise may be part of why the mass market brands are seemingly reluctant to enter that niche now.
    Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.

    Deep thought for the day:

    Your bandsaw weighs more when you leave the spring compressed instead of relieving the tension.

  10. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Parrish View Post
    Cool. I just picked up the rockler hose and adapters to try out both t haven’t opened the box yet. Had another trip today that put me near woodcraft and that’s where I started comparing the festool stuff. The auto on vacs seemed nice but want sure if the sanders would be any better. Thx.
    If that hose is the one that expands (gets longer) when you pull on it, I tried it and had problems with it. As soon as you turn the vacuum on, the hose shrinks (shortens) and that makes it hard to use.

    You can make your own "Auto on" vacuum with an iVac device and a regular shop vac. If you want to control the amount of suction, use a router speed control device.

    Mike
    Last edited by Mike Henderson; 12-14-2018 at 9:48 PM.
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Henderson View Post
    If that hose is the one that expands (gets longer) when you pull on it, I tried it and had problems with it. As soon as you turn the vacuum on, the hose shrinks (shortens) and that makes it hard to use.

    Mike
    Yep that’s the one. Expands to like 15’. Haven’t opened it as this has me looking at returning it in favor of this new route.

  12. #57
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Eastern KS
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    Festoon does have a hose with integrated cord but like all things festool is very pricey. I went the low cost route and zip tied the two together.

    I hate festool cords. My guys often bend them at the connection point when they roll them up and they "break". A tool replacement cord should not be 50 bucks. But I digress

    As as for the ergonomics of the ets-ec models, I find them comfortable to use. Much more so than any other ro sander I've used. The hand hole could be a big larger.


    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Wasner View Post
    I haven't tried the brushless ones so I can't talk to stock removal or scratch. The shape and size is wrong looking at them. The Dynabrade shape is really tough to beat.

    Does Festool have a hose with an integrated cord? I'm guessing they do? If not, that would be a big push for me to the mirka as well.

  13. #58
    Festool can be nice, but I really dislike their arbitrary annual 10% price increase. No real reason ever given for it, just rubs me the wrong way.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reinis Kanders View Post
    Festool can be nice, but I really dislike their arbitrary annual 10% price increase. No real reason ever given for it, just rubs me the wrong way.
    It is a sticking point with a lot of people and I get it. The one positive for the consumer is it keeps resale values high which often allows people to sell used Festool for more than they paid for it, but it doesn't benefit people like myself that basically never sell stuff. I would point out that it doesn't seem arbitrary in that it is not an across the board increase and the increase varies from tool to tool. I do tend to be pretty crafty and never pay full price for new Festool.
    Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.

    Deep thought for the day:

    Your bandsaw weighs more when you leave the spring compressed instead of relieving the tension.

  15. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Gaskin View Post
    I hate festool cords. My guys often bend them at the connection point when they roll them up and they "break". A tool replacement cord should not be 50 bucks. But I digress
    I've said for a very long time, tools should not have cords. They should have a regular male plug built in and your extension cord is your cord.

    Or. The above works but the tool cord will accept a standard 120 male end and have the option of twist locking into the tool as well.

    I think that would solve, or at least make it so you could get by if a cord or end fails.

    Also, make it so the case the tool comes in doesn't allow the tool to fit if the cord is installed. That would help solve the bending issue.

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