Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 41

Thread: Tenon Shoulder Question

  1. #16
    Challenge yourself to cut to the line. It's more efficient in the long term.

    I get my best results when I use tape to mark the the knife edge. That little micro lip of the tape registers the saw nicely and allows you to see the line more clearly than a knife - even on the lightest of woods.

    Funny: Neat dovetails and shoulders don't impress me as much as the bravery to try to attempt to saw it perfectly. It's like doing a crossword puzzle in pen.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    210
    By the way Paul Sellers demonstrates another method here using a router plane that I have used a couple times. It takes a little longer but yields really nice results easily.

    https://youtu.be/r-08PY3stgo

  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Mikes View Post
    By the way Paul Sellers demonstrates another method here using a router plane that I have used a couple times. It takes a little longer but yields really nice results easily.

    https://youtu.be/r-08PY3stgo
    His use of the router plane is for the tenon cheeks, not for the shoulders which are what the OP's question is about.

    Simon

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Dickinson, Texas
    Posts
    7,655
    Blog Entries
    1
    I have one of these rabbet block plane. It will do the job.
    https://www.google.com/search?q=lie+...OISvRhOLdE3M:]

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Longview WA
    Posts
    27,347
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnM Martin View Post
    Just wondering... do you saw your tenon shoulders right to the line or do you saw close and chisel? If you use a chisel for getting down to the line, do you use a narrow or wide chisel? I'm relatively new to the craft and just wondering about the best way to get good, consistent and repeatable results.
    Mine are cut as close as can be. If any paring is to be done, it is done with a wide chisel. Some of my techniques for repeatable results are explained in a build thread about an articulated gate:

    https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?262272

    Hope this is of help.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    twomiles from the "peak of Ohio
    Posts
    12,120
    Two saws..two cuts..
    mitersaw.jpg
    Shoulder cut ( this was for a rebate for a drawer back)
    cheek cut.jpg
    Second saw for the cheek cut...grain wasn't allowing a chisel to be used..

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Holcombe View Post
    Definetly prefer to cut the line and I teach people to cut the line. Paring is not a flawless process, there is a temptation to undercut. Cutting the shoulder accurately the first time is the best way and short of that just touching up with a wide chisel to your knife marks.

    Making big groove with the knife is another spot for error, unless you knife exactly your kerf it will make the saw center itself between the grooves and likely will cut away the knife line and make your part shorter than expected.
    I think the big knife groove has bitten me in the past and I couldn't figure out what I had done wrong. Thanks, Brian, somehow it makes sense to see it in writing.

  8. #23
    I used to saw off the line, but now I almost always try to do joinery by sawing right to the line. I’ve found there is nothing that has improved my sawing technique more than forcing this upon myself. It’s so much faster and I don’t want to want to waste a third of my life paring down to lines. So I cut the face of the tenon to the line. For the end grain cut, I will usually just take it off with a chisel unless there are serious grain issues involved.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    2,151
    I bought this saw specifically to use on this project. It's a Garlick filed 20tpi crosscut. There are 24 sliding dovetails to a miter to catch the beads and 8 mitered dovetails at the corners. It is my favorite for cutting shoulders and I saw to the knife line, no knife wall. I'm not certain but i think the slant pushes the saw a bit back into the shoulder. I also feel that when you add an additional step it risks error. So many times when cutting shoulders you are trying to match parts. If you introduce error you have to recut more than one joint.
    Jim
    Attached Images Attached Images

  10. #25
    3 words. Tenon shoulder jig.

    Yes its a crutch, but it helps you learn what cutting to the line feels like, and you can phase it out.

    Paring for me almost always leads to undesirable results, it can never be as accurate as a saw.

  11. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Campbell View Post
    3 words. Tenon shoulder jig.

    Yes its a crutch,
    Jiff Miller's kind of design?

    Simon
    Last edited by Simon MacGowen; 12-13-2018 at 7:00 PM.

  12. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Simon MacGowen View Post
    Jiff Miller's kind of design?

    Simon
    Much simpler... an all square block of wood (sized to the work you intend to carry out, useful to have various sizes), with a guide screwed onto one edge, extending below the main block.

    You can put a marking knife on the line, slide the jig up to the knife, and then use the jig as a guide to saw at a perfect 90 degrees.

    It is a really quick process, and gives more relaible results, especially when I’m out of practice.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    2,151
    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Campbell View Post
    3 words. Tenon shoulder jig.

    Yes its a crutch, but it helps you learn what cutting to the line feels like, and you can phase it out.

    Paring for me almost always leads to undesirable results, it can never be as accurate as a saw.
    No crutch to it Dom. All methods can come into play. All kinds of guides have been used, miter boxes, shooting boards, paring blocks etc. Guides have been used since day 1.
    Jim

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    New England area
    Posts
    588
    Pretty hard to get a light-tight fit on wider joints right off the saw. The slightest little discrepancy in surfacing the mortised piece (don't forget it!), alone, can put it out and this is before you even consider the sawn shoulders. I'm not ashamed to use a shoulder plane to sneak up on a good fit, and I don't think I'm alone based on the profusion of these made in the last couple hundred years or so. The British, Scottish, and Irish brands, and models within brands, by themselves are dizzying enough. Somebody must have used them, the crowd claiming "not to have used XYZ Tool since the 1970s" (or however it goes) notwithstanding. Perhaps the difference can be chalked up to fine English cabinetmaking vs. comparatively rough Colonial reproductions.

    Otherwise, these tools are kind of like Miltown, "mommy's little helper" from the 1960s, so convenient and effective they're just a bit addictive.

    Of course the tool is run in from both edges if necessary (sometimes you just need to resolve a bump or swale in the middle of the shoulder resulting from a slight imperfection in the saw plate, or a mis-set tooth or two). It never makes a spelching exit cut at all. That argument against their efficacy is a nonstarter and a misunderstanding of how the tool is used 99% of the time. It's for tidying up, not remodeling. The tissue removed would melt between slightly sweaty thumb and forefinger. If you're removing bulk, something has gone awry. Keep the honing angle low, on this already low-angle tool.
    Last edited by Charles Guest; 12-14-2018 at 11:23 AM.

  15. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Guest View Post
    Pretty hard to get a light-tight fit on wider joints right off the saw. The slightest little discrepancy in surfacing the mortised piece (don't forget it!), alone, can put it out and this is before you even consider the sawn shoulders. I'm not ashamed to use a shoulder plane to sneak up on a good fit, and I don't think I'm alone based on the profusion of these made in the last couple hundred years or so. The British, Scottish, and Irish brands, and models within brands, by themselves are dizzying enough. Somebody must have used them, the crowd claiming "not to have used XYZ Tool since the 1970s" (or however it goes) notwithstanding.

    Kind of like Miltown, "mommy's little helper" from the 1960s, so convenient and effective they're just a bit addictive.

    Of course the tool is run in from both edges if necessary (sometimes you just need to resolve a bump or swale in the middle of the shoulder resulting from a slight imperfection in the saw plate). It never makes a spelching exit cut at all. That argument against their efficacy is a nonstarter and a misunderstanding of how the tool is used 99% of the time. It's for tidying up, not remodeling. The tissue removed would melt between slightly sweaty thumb and forefinger. If you're removing bulk, something has gone awry.

    That is exactly what I have been doing. Any tips to avoid blow out when using a shoulder plane? I have been working from both sides towards the middle which seems to work for me, but always requires 'fiddling' to get it dead flat the entire way.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •