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Thread: Chris Swarz surfaced at Highland Woodworking.

  1. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by William Adams View Post
    Actually, that is winding down and will be over soon:

    https://www.popularwoodworking.com/w...f-this-weblog/
    That held a number of truths!
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

    “If you want to know what a man's like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors, not his equals.”

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica de Boer View Post
    The English speaking wood working community you mean. There are scores of skilled craftsmen and women in non-English speaking countries who have never heard of him... or you for that matter. That is not meant as an insult but the wood working "community" as you call it is larger than you think. It doesn't consist of a few forums and youtube channels. What Swarz does and his opinions are not nearly as important as you think they are.
    The ability to inspire should not be underestimated.

    In my area there is really no recourse to a hand tool apprenticeship, so we are self taught for the most part. Books that can fire your imagination and get you up and moving towards your goals are a vital part of my own foray into hand work. If the language barrier prevents his work from being more widespread, that's a shame as I find his writing funny and engaging.

    The technical expertise is one thing, being able to get people interested in the craft is another.
    Dojo Kun, 1: Be humble and polite.

  3. #48
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    Jessica there is a lot of truth in what you say. I admire your professional viewpoint as mine is that of a serious hobbyist!
    One example you may relate to is a boat builder called Gozzard Yachts about 100 km north of me in Goderich. They build old fashioned full keel heavy cruisers. The wood work inside is stellar, absolutely gorgeous! Mike Gozzard who owns the place is one of the nicest down to earth people I’ve ever met. I went up for a tour of his shop (another story) and was shocked. His benches were very old, badly worn and crude. His tools old and basic. The lighting was poor, you would think you just went back 100 years.

    Clearly his world of wood is an island unto itself. It will look the same in 20 years. They follow no trends, seemingly talk to no-one. It makes you realise the beautiful product is a result of the skill of the craftsmen. I found this quite intimidating as an amateur!

    So yes the world of wood is very varied and disconnected. Those of us ‘riding the wave’ are equally disconnected. Our wave spotters are just that.

    The few productive craftsmen with a lifetime of achievement who reach out to educate are revered, but there are remarkably few of them. There are many, many more who only educate by association.
    Last edited by William Fretwell; 12-15-2018 at 9:26 AM. Reason: Grammar
    ​You can do a lot with very little! You can do a little more with a lot!

  4. #49
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    I think Chris came along at the right time with the right skills, i.e. marketing, internet and writing. His woodworking is good but any number of hobbyists on this forum could match his work. What most have lacked is the innovation to stay current and to spread the message. Like Norm with television, Chris has embraced all that the internet has to offer for spreading his word, networking, and teaching. 30 years ago what he has done would have been impossible. Timing and innovation has been his best friend.

    Jessica, you bring up an interesting point about those woodworkers outside the English speaking realm who are big in their countries. Does anyone know of any? It is unfortunate, in my own opinion, that there are probably hundreds of other woodworkers who do not or cannot reach us because of language barriers. I'd be curious who the Christopher Schwarz of Russia, Japan or China is (to name a few).
    USMC '97-'01

  5. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by david charlesworth View Post
    I think those people on the first page, who do not even know what he does, (or how to spell hid name), should keep their opinions to themselves.

    Chris is a great asset to the woodworking community IMO.

    David Charlesworth
    So you are for stamping out "foot-in-mouth" disease? I think CS would prefer free speech and just skip over such blather.

    Truth will out. As it has done here with later posts. Maybe a few will have learned something and gone to see what CS is all about. Some of those may learn to value his contributions. Push-back against the uninformed views of such character is sometimes worthwhile.
    Fair winds and following seas,
    Jim Waldron

  6. #51
    First off, Jessica is a pro.
    I think she posted some of her work earlier in the year, and it was glorious.
    I think I posted something about her husband being a lucky man.

    Secondly, Chris is not the best woodworker by a long shot...but a good writer, likable dude, and introduction to woodworking to hobbyists like me.
    Thus, a number of us hold him in high regard.

    I only wish him well.

  7. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Taran View Post
    And to add to that, on a medium that was wholly invented and promoted by America, namely the internet. Sorry if we are too proud for some, but we've done our fair share to advance humanity.
    Without Tim Berners-Lee, born in London, there would be no internet as we know it today (internet is not the correct term, what you see is the World Wide Web). Berners-Lee invented the hyperlink while working at CERN in Switzerland as a way to share and update information between users. Later he further developed it into the World Wide Web which are hyperlinks that run on the internet. While the internet, the backbone, is an invention by the US army the World Wide Web that runs on it is invented by a Brit. Maybe you should know what you're talking about before making false claims.

  8. #53
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    Jessica,

    You crack me up. A few facts for those following along. Linking of computers was actually started by DARPA and called ARPANET, which was not the US Army all the way back in the 1960s. The internet was already fully underway and commercialized in 1989 with 500,000 Compuserve users long before Lee ever developed the first web browser. While revisionist history is great fun, you might take some of your own advice. I fully expect next to hear it was not the US military that won WWII, and The Wright Brothers were in fact born in Belgium!

    BTW, there were some of us active on the old usenet forums. A great schism occurred in the early 90s when all the hand tool users left rec.ww and started the oldtools listserve, still active today.

    Happy surfing!

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica de Boer View Post
    Without Tim Berners-Lee, born in London, there would be no internet as we know it today (internet is not the correct term, what you see is the World Wide Web). Berners-Lee invented the hyperlink while working at CERN in Switzerland as a way to share and update information between users. Later he further developed it into the World Wide Web which are hyperlinks that run on the internet. While the internet, the backbone, is an invention by the US army the World Wide Web that runs on it is invented by a Brit. Maybe you should know what you're talking about before making false claims.
    There would be less demand for fine quality hand tools in the English speaking woodworking community today without Chris Schwarz. The resulting mass market forces stimulate production of more and varied types of hand tools and that is to the decided benefit all traditional woodworking regardless of which country invented the internet or reads English books. Even us naive American hobbyists who enjoy Schwarz' books in English add to the whole.
    Dojo Kun, 1: Be humble and polite.

  10. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica de Boer View Post
    While the internet, the backbone, is an invention by the US army the World Wide Web that runs on it is invented by a Brit. Maybe you should know what you're talking about before making false claims.
    Stick to woodworking Jessica. You have skills, knowledge and training there.

    The hyperlink is a follow-on development made possible by earlier work done Stateside. That's how science and engineering works - we all stand on the shoulders of the giants who came before us.
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

    “If you want to know what a man's like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors, not his equals.”

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Taran View Post
    Jessica,

    You crack me up. A few facts for those following along. Linking of computers was actually started by DARPA and called ARPANET, which was not the US Army all the way back in the 1960s. The internet was already fully underway and commercialized in 1989 with 500,000 Compuserve users long before Lee ever developed the first web browser. While revisionist history is great fun, you might take some of your own advice. I fully expect next to hear it was not the US military that won WWII, and The Wright Brothers were in fact born in Belgium!

    BTW, there were some of us active on the old usenet forums. A great schism occurred in the early 90s when all the hand tool users left rec.ww and started the oldtools listserve, still active today.

    Happy surfing!
    Pete,
    Pete you are correct in that the USA invented the internet quite independently. I think you misunderstand Jessica greatly, and have mixed up the internet and world wide web. Linking of computers (internet's job) is not the world wide web. You are correct that the internet was well established during the 80s and we have the USA and its enormously deep pockets to thank for that. And many thanks I give.

    I don't see where Jessica is wrong. She's actually spot on for this one. I don't think you're realizing how the Internet is not the world wide web. 500000 users of a computer network, vs a computer network that has the world wide web, Lee and his work certainly important (understatement). Without him.... Also Paul Baran had envisioned the Internet (well the first network and idea that serves as the layout to the internet) as a communications method capable of surviving a Soviet strike. His ideas were thrown away by the military and AT&T. The USA could've had internet a little bit earlier... ARPA and Bob Taylor were definitely brilliant though. That being said, Donald Davies of Britain had the same ideas as Bob Taylor and put himself to work before learning about the existence of Bob Taylor's.

    The Internet and the world wide web are two separate things. I cannot stress this enough. Often the Internet is used wrongly to describe the world wide web. "the Internet is toxic," etc. Linking of computers with routers is the internet. A physical structure. A collection of IPs that allow smaller networks to communicate to form the massive network which we call the Internet. The world wide web is an information haven, collection of , network that uses a network called the Internet. Take the world wide web away and we would suffer greatly would be an understatement. Take the internet away and we would suffer greatly is also an understatement.

    We can go back to the age of ARPA's Bob Taylor's ARAPNET and the following decade. You can link your computer to others and many others. perhaps make more computers, give everyone in third world countries one. But no World wide web allowed. Then what? What would you do? Email is allowed. Big plus, wholly American made too but just think about how much of your email's content is reliant on the world wide web. The world wide web made the internet relevant to a normal everyday person. The internet is mostly used for email and browsing the world wide web today.

    Lee invented the world's first website. The first browser. Of course an American institution made the mosaic browser which allowed for a turning point in the world wide web. But without his inventions and CERN releasing the web free to use and without proprietary constraints things in the world might look very different today. just imagine no www. I think we can give quite a bit of credit to Tim Lee for his important work. I know that all tech giants in the US would do the same.

  12. #57
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    Vincent,

    Forgive me, but I meant the internet which is why I used that term to start with. I understand that the internet is the physical infrastructure that carries world wide web traffic. Copper, fiber, switches, routers, etc. I never made any mention of the WWW, others did. My facts are also not incorrect about email starting before there was a WWW.

    I'm also not disputing Lee's contribution. Having said all that, who came up with the great idea for the infrastructure, and then who added on to that MONUMENTAL feat? That is the main point of my post. You might also recall, being a student of the interwebs, that at the other end of the CERN pipeline that is often cited, was Cornell University, which last time I checked, was in Upstate NY.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frederick Skelly View Post
    Stick to woodworking Jessica. You have skills, knowledge and training there.

    The hyperlink is a follow-on development made possible by earlier work done Stateside. That's how science and engineering works - we all stand on the shoulders of the giants who came before us.
    Frederick you're correct but I don't see why Jessica should stick to woodworking, she's is right about the WWW. And of course we all stand on the shoulders of the giants, but Lee is up there with Bob Taylor. A decently tall giant in his own right. His work is a follow on development, sure; one that happens to be what the internet is mainly used for along with email.
    The people who invented the internet never dreamed their network structure could have such uses. The IPs of current are still the ones designed for small computer networks and the tech that existed then. If they had foreseen the world wide web, the internet would look quite different, be designed different, and things would've been much smoother going for the world during the early 2000 and earlier. The WWW exploded and multiplied like nothing seen ever before.

    Again, to demonstrate the importance of the WWW, I will reiterate. The internet is almost exclusively used for accessing the World Wide Web and email.

    On a sidenote, how did this topic even start? I can't even find Pete's original line quoted by Jessica.

    Vincent

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Taran View Post
    Vincent,

    Forgive me, but I meant the internet which is why I used that term to start with. I understand that the internet is the physical infrastructure that carries world wide web traffic. Copper, fiber, switches, routers, etc. I never made any mention of the WWW, others did. My facts are also not incorrect about email starting before there was a WWW.

    I'm also not disputing Lee's contribution. Having said all that, who came up with the great idea for the infrastructure, and then who added on to that MONUMENTAL feat? That is the main point of my post. You might also recall, being a student of the interwebs, that at the other end of the CERN pipeline that is often cited, was Cornell University, which last time I checked, was in Upstate NY.
    I am in full agreement that American brain power, money and foundation laying for all of the above is what allowed for progress as we see it.

    I guess I wrote too much. I was slightly puzzled as to what gave rise to this topic of conversation, I can garner enough to put together a picture but can't find the first post. Nevertheless maybe a passerby might find my long winded post slightly informative.

  15. #60
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    LOL. The picture is now fully formed. Interesting, I hadn't observed this sort of moderation happening before. I guess I'm still fairly new to the forum. I think I might have to avoid posting some pictures of my work, I've got "Great White North" in Chinese characters etched into a few metal things somewhere. I forget if I've put it on any of my Kanna blades. I wonder if a maple leaf in my work would be too much if I wrote a little line about it mentioning Canada.
    Last edited by Lee Schierer; 12-15-2018 at 8:00 PM. Reason: removed quote

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