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Thread: The Grindstone Project

  1. #16
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    Jim and Jim,

    I'm not into Neanderhood enough to want a pit saw....that would be carrying things a bit far for me. If I ever want to get a tree trunk cut up into lumber, I will have a commercial sawmill do that.....I won't be buying a pit saw! Not to say that I want to discourage another Neander from doing such if his heart is really into it.....only saying it just isn't for me.

    Concerning how to drive the wheel, my grandfather had such a grindstone out in his side yard, I think perhaps from when he was farming back in the 20s or 30s.

    It was driven by two up and down pedals. The set up was you sat on a seat, kind of like an old style bicycle seat only steel, and the wheel was in front of you on a metal framework that was tied to the seat and the drive petals. The petals were on something like angle iron sections that extended forward one straddling each side of the frame. The back end of the angle iron pieces were on ground level attached to the frame, and they were on pivots at that end. These pivots were pretty much directly below, and maybe slightly behind the seat. The angle irons extended forward and slightly upward, and on the front end of them were petals that your feet rested on. When one petal was up the other petal rested on the ground.

    The front edge of the petals had rods attached that pivoted on the front end location of the petals (perhaps attached to the sides of the petals at the front end of each), and the rods went from the pivots on the front of the petals about straight up to the ends of the grinding wheel drive device, which was shaped like the central petal drive assembly that the petals set on on a bicycle. On a bicycle this central drive assembly devise is what the forward chain drive sprocket is attached to. The center of this assembly went through the center of the grindstone and drove it. The rods attached to the drive assembly were about straight up from front end of the petals to what would be the equivalent of where the petals set on a bicycle drive assembly, and they pivoted on this spot where the petals would be on a bicycle drive assembly.

    Thus the up and down movement of your feet was converted by the drive assembly on the wheel to a circular movement to the wheel.

    This center assembly on the grindstone was virtually the same shape as the center petal assembly on a bicycle. When your right foot went down on the petals on the ends of the angle irons, the equivalent part on the center assembly on the grindstone went forward then down in a circular motion. At the same time the petal under your right foot was going down, the petal under your left foot was going up. Once you got the wheel started, its momentum carried the circular movement, and each press of the petals under your feet would drive the wheel faster and faster. We small grandchildren just loved to petal the thing. The wheel was pretty good sized, my guess looking back almost 60 years or so is that it might have been 20" to 2' in diameter. It was definitely bigger than some of the smaller ones that I have seen that are maybe 12" to 15" in diameter. My guess is that it might have been 2" wide or so.

    Stew
    Last edited by Stew Denton; 12-11-2018 at 11:19 PM.

  2. #17
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    Mine had a stand like that:

    Wheel Stand.jpg

    It didn't look like a candidate for rehabilitation.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  3. #18
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    Stew, We wouldn't be doing a lot of work with a pit saw. It would only be used for demonstration about how it used to be done at some of the privately owned museum houses I work on.

  4. #19
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    Tom, sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you were going to use one a lot.

    If you look to buy one at the aforementioned outfit, see if you can get a bargain price on one. They may have had 4 of the six that they have in stock on the books since 1867. (They sold the other 2 back in 1975 to a lady who was into painting saws, and wanted to paint a couple of landscape paintings of the entire Golden Gate Bridge, one from each side.)

    Regards,

    Stew

  5. #20
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    That's kind of what I was thinking too. I did contact them for a catalog, and a price on the pit saw, but haven't heard back yet.

  6. #21
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    Work has been progressing. The bearing mount joinery is finished:

    Grind Whell Bearing tower.jpg

    Next is doing the legs, then a cutout for the wheel.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  7. #22
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    I'm anxious to see how this works out for you once completed. I don't see any option for a drip can mount?
    Jim

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom M King View Post
    Possible, but I don't remember buying anything from them. I've been looking for a pit saw for years, so if I had one of their catalogs, I might own a pit saw now.
    I bought their pit saw three years ago. Once I got pointers on sharpening it, it's been fun to use. Elevating logs is NOT the fun part.
    AKA - "The human termite"

  9. #24
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    I'll cheat, and use a frontend loader.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Pallas View Post
    I'm anxious to see how this works out for you once completed. I don't see any option for a drip can mount?
    Jim
    My tendency with little details like a drip can mount is to keep them in mind but not include them in the design and do the 'engineering' as the project progresses.

    Today was productive in getting the grinding wheel mounted and spinning freely:

    Grindstone Mounted & Spinning.jpg

    The central mortise was cut out using a large auger bit, then a forstner bit followed by chisels, a draw knife, a pad saw, spokeshaves, rasps and a saber saw.

    All the bolts that do not go all the way through wood to be held by nuts have threaded inserts to anchor them.

    For anyone interested in such details, the legs slope and splay is 10º.

    There is some blocking to be added to the top of the legs. A treadle needs to be designed and added. My backside is telling me there needs to be an adjustable seat made. And of course there needs to be a way to drip water on the stone while it is in use.

    After all that there will need to be a tool rest and a way to keep me from getting drenched when using this thing.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  11. #26
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    Maybe draw some ideas from this one...
    whet stone.jpg
    Pedal Power...

  12. #27
    Have the wheel turn away from you and you don't get wet. Also, I use a long planter without drain holes under my wheel to keep the water off the floor.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Lemon View Post
    Have the wheel turn away from you and you don't get wet. Also, I use a long planter without drain holes under my wheel to keep the water off the floor.
    Thanks for the tips Mike.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  14. #29
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    This project has had a little progress. Mostly mulling over in my mind about how things should go without having to purchase any more material.

    The treadle seems to be workable:

    Treadle Assembly.jpg

    The 5/16" rod is from a 4' piece purchased at the local ACE Hardware. They also carried an interesting thing called a Heim Joint or rod end. It may be a total bust but what the heck it looks like it belonged in this venture.

    Another odd occurrence was an ebay listing for some Little Giant Dies. The starting bid was $9.99 and the shipping was reasonable. Often on some of these odd deals the minimum bid is all it takes. One of the die sets was a 5/16-18 and has been put to use on this project.

    The hinge pin for the treadle is ~6" long. This size was used to save some of the rod. The holes were first drilled at 5/16" and then followed by a 3/8" spoon bit. This allows the steel rod to be set in place and then 3/8" dowels can be driven in to hold it in place.

    This is a scrap of poplar dowel having its ends trimmed:

    Trimming Dowel End.jpg

    Dowels are so much easier to drive home if the starting end is tapered a little.

    The next step is getting the treadle stable and connected to the base.

    jtk
    Last edited by Jim Koepke; 01-28-2019 at 1:55 AM. Reason: Another odd occurrence
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  15. #30
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    With a little futzing and fiddling the treadle assembly was attached to the base, the drive rod adjusted and a bit of testing on steel was done:

    Grinding Wheel WIP.jpg

    Next comes the water shield and tool rest.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

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