BS Wheel Alignment: cite your references

[Bill Space]

This is to be an educational question rather than a debate so please try to keep it on topic.


It seems like there are three camps related to how bandsaw wheels should be positioned with respect to one another. In all cases the top wheel has tilt adjustment so we can ignore that feature with respect to this discussion.


What I see are three possibilities, in no particular order:

1. It doesn’t matter if the wheels are coplaner or not
2. Wheels should be offset by some amount, definitely NOT coplaner
3. Wheels should be set coplaner

So what do your manuals/other sources say?


Please cite specific sources. Manuals, publications, theses or whatever.


In other threads many opinions have been expressed. Hopefully this thread may list sources that back up those opinions. We all have our opinions. Let’s try not to post them here and rather defer to published directives or scientific studies, if such animals exist. Of course, a summary of what the reference says is welcomed!


Perhaps this will be the rare one post thread! Hope not!


For a start, here are a couple references that support the coplaner relationship.


In a different thread Tom M King referenced the following instructions which call for coplaner wheels


http://www.northfieldwoodworking.com...llAssembly.pdf


John TenEyck in another thread pointed out that in “the owner's manual for my G0636X 17" bandsaw. There is a whole section about "Wheel Alignment" which starts out "Wheel alignment is one of the most critical factors for optimal performance from your bandsaw. Heat, vibration, wandering, blade wear, tire wear and overall bandsaw wear are considerably decreased when the wheels are properly aligned, or "coplaner".


https://cdn0.grizzly.com/manuals/g0636x_m.pdf


I don’t recall seeing any references supporting the other two possibilities but with age my memory may be growing shorter...


There is no doubt in my mind that a bandsaw can be made to perform satisfactorily without the wheels being coplaner. But that is not the question here.


Above are two references that indicate coplaner position of the wheels is desirable.


Can anyone provide references that support the other possible wheel relationships listed above?


Remember...not opinions...but rather published references such as manufacture’s manuals or other documented sources.


Just trying to solidify what I have come to believe, and think this subject could be of interest to others now and in the future.


You know what you believe. Can you post a reference that supports it?


Bill

[John TenEyck]

Bill, as I recall, after at least one person in a prior post said that some Asian manufacturers purposely set the wheels some amount out of coplaner, I asked the question if anyone could show a reference supporting that statement. No one responded.

John

[Van Huskey]

Take a couple of seconds to think about the issue of coplanar as it relates to bandsaw wheels.

If the proper operating state for bandsaw wheels is supposed to be exactly coplanar then why do bandsaws have a mechanism to adjust the plane relationship between the wheels which you are supposed to use each time to put on a new blade? The word "tracking" would not be in the lexicon of bandsaws if coplanar was the proper way to orient the wheels. They would be adjusted to coplanar and never moved.

So why does the coplanar "myth" exist? It exists because the wheels of a bandsaw have to be within a certain tolerance of coplanar to operate. This will vary with the width of the tire, the width of the blade and distance between the wheels. Consider the venerable Delta 14" saw, you can't have one wheel offset by 3" and have it function nor can you have one wheel canted 45* in relation to the other. So "everyone" talks about coplanar because you need to have the wheels near coplanar.

So why is it that truly coplanar is bad. If the wheels are perfectly coplanar then the blade is very twitchy and tracking it is a huge pain, this is where the smallest adjustments to tracking have the largest impact on blade position*. The offset doesn't need to be much at all, probably lower than most peoples tolerance of what they call coplanar. Keep in mind the methods I have seen on how to check and adjust to coplanar all use the incorrect reference surface. The rim of the wheel is NOT the proper reference surface, the actual top of the crown is the proper reference.

The reason I hate the coplanar mantra is far more people have screwed up their saw by futzing with the lower wheel. I have only seen one bandsaw so far out of coplanar that it would not track blades correctly. It was a PM140 that had the upper shaft so beat up the upper wheel would not seat and was sitting about an inch forward of its proper position.

One doesn't need a higher authority to understand the sole function of the tracking mechanism on a bandsaw is to adjust the wheels in relation to coplanar.

[Edwin Santos]

If the proper operating state for bandsaw wheels is supposed to be exactly coplanar then why do bandsaws have a mechanism to adjust the plane relationship between the wheels which you are supposed to use each time to put on a new blade? The word "tracking" would not be in the lexicon of bandsaws if coplanar was the proper way to orient the wheels. They would be adjusted to coplanar and never moved.

This just makes too much sense.

[Mike Cutler]

Bill

I think a separate questions is generated by your initial question.

I would ask how many band saw instruction manuals do not advocate, or even address, setting the wheels to coplanar? If they're not addressing it, or detailing the methodology to set them coplanar, than that also is a data point.Regardless though, the answer is in the material coming off the backend of the bandsaw. It's either working, or it's not.

As for personal opinion, I still believe, and always will, that a 14" bandsaw, (Delta clone type), is not suitable for resawing on a consistent, repetitive, longterm, basis.

[Bill Space]

I was really hoping to get specific references stating how manufacturers recommend setting up their bandsaws, and to avoid debating the merits or weaknesses of one over the other.

The two references listed above do indicate coplaner position as at least the starting point. Do other manufacturers suggest something different?

I was hoping members here could show us manufacturers’ recommendations differing from those references listed above, as lots of opinions have been expressed here and elsewhere on this subject, but references backing them up have been rare.

Bill

[Bill Space]

Bill

I think a separate questions is generated by your initial question.

I would ask how many band saw instruction manuals do not advocate, or even address, setting the wheels to coplanar? If they're not addressing it, or detailing the methodology to set them coplanar, than that also is a data point...[ snip]

Mike I understand your point and think that falls within possibility 1) above.

Bill

[Zachary Hoyt]

I never considered the question of being coplanar or not till I started spending time on this site. When I have set up band saws I put the blade on the wheels, tension it and then see if it stays somewhere near the middle of the tire while I spin it over by hand. If it does I am happy, and I set the guides and try cutting a piece of wood. If it doesn't I twiddle with the tracking knob till it does. I had an old Montgomery Wards 10" saw that I couldn't get to run right because the upper wheel ran on a bronze bushing that was worn out so it wobbled, and it also vibrated, so I eventually sold that saw for $25, which was only a bit less than I had in it. "Unencumbered by the thought process" is a state of mind I learned about from listening to Car Talk and it usually works for me.
Zach

[Tom M King]

What problem are we trying to solve? While I am quoted with providing one of the references (the "M" is in my name because there was already another Tom King registered as a member back when I first joined these forums), I don't remember ever checking whether the wheels on any of my 3 bandsaws are coplanar, or not. I just remembered seeing a picture of them using fishing line in some Northfield video.

I do this for a living. I just need to produce work. The tracking is adjusted to where it works, and work produced. Or as someone quoted: "Too much to do...Not enough time...life it too short!

[Robert Engel]

I'm with Van.

Bill I don't know what the point really is, because machines are different. What a lot of guys seem so miss is that no all machines are made to have coplanar wheels. The issue I have is with Snodgrass and his disciples is to make a definitive statement across all brands of machines. I believe this has caused a lot of grief and frustration.

So, I'll cite my manual which has nothing in it about adjusting the bottom wheel.

My saw (Rikon 10-345) has adjustment screws for the bottom wheel. The wheels on this machine are definitely notco-planar. In fact, they seem a bit more out than I thought they should be. So I called tech support and their reply was the wheels are set to factory specs and they were emphatic in saying DO NOT change the settings. So this particular machine is set at the factory with non-coplanar wheels.

ASFAI the only reason to set wheels coplanar is to achieve the nirvana of the Snodgrass "No Drift" machine. But if a particular machine is set with non-coplanar wheels, its not going to be fruitful or as Van alluded, you may mess up your machine.

Instead, I adjusted the table (not the fence) for drift and I set the tracking to match, not the fence. I think this is a better way to go.

[Bruce Whitaker]

Bill Space, to reply to your original post asking what do the manufacturers recommend: The 1947 Delta 20” manual states that the wheels are set up at the factory and only tracking adjustments when changing blades should be needed. However, the manual goes on to state that due to abuse during shipping or if a wheel has been removed, the upper and low r wheels must be brought into alignment.

”Use of the 3-point mounting feature previously men* tioned provides a simple correction for such cases. Two hexagon head cap screws SP-628 fasten the left edge of the mounting plate CBS-68, Fig. 8, to the band saw frame. A third screw SP-617 passes through a steel bushing CBS-84. By releasing this screw and turning the bushing in the frame the mounting plate may be adjusted toward or away from the frame, thus shifting the upper wheel shaft through a small horizontal angle. The hexagon head cap screw SP-617 should be tight* ened when the wheels have been made parallel.Similar adjustment for alignment of the lower wheel is provided by the bushing CBS-Ill in the mounting plate CBS-70, Fig. 10. The lower wheel shaft may be shifted through a small vertical angle by turning this bushing.
If either wheel has been removed it must be brought into line with the other wheel when it is remounted, by locking it in proper position on the shaft. A straight* edge built to span the cabinet will be helpful for this.”

[John Sincerbeaux]

Are we planing a lunar landing mission here or cutting wood? Geez!

[glenn bradley]

I was really hoping to get specific references stating how manufacturers recommend setting up their bandsaws, and to avoid debating the merits or weaknesses of one over the other.

I hear you. This topic is second only to chip breakers, Saw Stop and Festool discussions.

My manual dedicates two pages and four diagrams to adjusting wheels for coplaner.

I think we all know that the wheels will probably not be coplaner in operation due to tracking adjustments of the upper wheel. The point of discussion, believe, is the starting point from where that tracking is adjusted.

[Bill Space]

What problem are we trying to solve? While I am quoted with providing one of the references (the "M" is in my name because there was already another Tom King registered as a member back when I first joined these forums)....

Tom, I checked to be sure I did not misquote you. I was referring to post #50 in this thread:

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....justment/page2

Not really trying to solve a problem. In my case I have come to believe one thing, and always try to keep an open mind, and see where I may have come to an erroneous conclusion.

So I was hoping to find references related to the three possibilities i listed above, to either cause me to adjust my thinking or reinforce it.

So far we have four manufacturers indicating that coplaner wheel position is desirable. And Robert Engel, in his post above, indicates that Rikon tech support told him that he should not adjust wheel position even if they are not coplaner.

It is not clear what the Rikon factory specs are for the wheels on Robert's saw. It would be interesting to know what they are. For me it would be disturbing to be told something is good the way it is, without being told the way it is supposed to be, so I could verify it was set to spec.

If I read Bruce Whitaker's post correctly, it looks like Delta is calling for coplaner wheels on the 20" bandsaw, and lists a procedure for making them so if the need arises.

Glen Bradley states his manual says the Wheels should be coplaner. Not sure what saw Glen has. If it is a Grizzly then the number of manufacturers supporting coplaner wheel position would reduce to three at this point.

Glen also has made me realize this subject is " second only to chip breakers, Saw Stop and Festool discussions."

[ChrisA Edwards]

I found this informative