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Thread: Working After Retirement - Thinking out loud

  1. #31
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    Mar 2003
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    Perry, I have to somewhat disagree with you. Business organization is very critical relative to tax advantages and it absolutely can help shield personal assets from business liability if done...correctly. The recent tax laws have really hurt "sole proprietorship" when it comes to taxes. All many of us are saying is to get qualified advise from a small business professional up-front to insure that there is clear understanding of what each organizational scenario brings to the table for both taxation and for liability mitigation.

    I will agree with you that some accountants will push for more complex arrangement than may be necessary, but that's a risk with any professional resource. They are in business, too. The same thing happens in your own profession as well as many others. Nature of the beast...and "buyer beware"...
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  2. #32
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    Feb 2003
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    All very good info here and Thank You!!
    I've done a good bit of woodworking here where I live and the strange thing is that people want stuff for WalMart prices and I simply cannot do that! Custom turned pens, customer said "I'll pay you $5 for that pen and no more". I said....I can't sell you the pen for $5 as I have more than that in the supplies for that pen. Lost sale. Custom turned bowls....People simply won't pay more than about $35 for a bowl. Custom designed furniture...people simply don't want to pay the money for well designed and made furniture but they'll go to the local BB stores and pay for the particleboard junk for a few hundred dollars and then complain about how crappy it is and how it fell apart on them in the first 6 months they had the piece.
    I made an L-shaped computer desk for a guy at work. He complained about spending $600 for a desk from the local office supply store and how it fell apart on him in less than a year. I told him that I could build him a custom desk like he wants for $600. 8 Years later, he still has the desk.

    I've gone over how much money I've made doing ww'ing around here and over the past 19 years, I've not made enough to cover 2 months of what I'm looking for per month after retirement. It's frustrating trying to talk to people about starting and running a small business. I live outside city limits, out in the country. Asking around and trying to talk to people about this topic seems like I'm asking them for all their personal financials! There's a lot of businesses around here that I do not trust. Their reputation follows them closely. So I'm asking online to try and get better advice, learn more, and research a bit more while I'm trying to find reputable resources to talk to about my ideas and thinking. The quest continues.
    Thanks & Happy Wood Chips,
    Dennis -
    Get the Benefits of Being an SMC Contributor..!
    ....DEBT is nothing more than yesterday's spending taken from tomorrow's income.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Peacock View Post
    I live outside city limits, out in the country.
    These days, it would be rare to find a business in the country that could survive without selling its products online. Do you have a plan to manage the aspects of online sales? - or open a shop in metropolis?

  4. #34
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    Dennis, much of what you just wrote in post #32 is why I (and others like Keith) have suggested that B2B is really where you want to play. Direct to consumer is tough because of the reasons you mentioned around expectations vs cost. I will not say that businesses don't have sensitivity to cost...they do. But they have stronger sensitivities to quality and many also appreciate what it actually takes to make things. So subcontract work is going to be a stronger play, IMHO. I focus a bunch of my "marketing time" on that at this point. The things I make for direct to consumer are more about either keeping my machine(s) and myself working in between doing more profitable work for other businesses and makers.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  5. #35
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    Sep 2007
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    Upstate NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Peacock View Post
    I've done a good bit of woodworking here where I live and the strange thing is that people want stuff for WalMart prices and I simply cannot do that!
    I tried doing woodworking commercially and quit for exactly that reason. I found I was working for $5/hour. I suppose once you develop a reputation you can charge what its worth, but until then...
    Other thing that annoyed me was that people couldn't even see the difference between what I made and junk.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wade Lippman View Post
    Other thing that annoyed me was that people couldn't even see the difference between what I made and junk.
    Oh I know that feeling all too well..!!!!!
    Thanks & Happy Wood Chips,
    Dennis -
    Get the Benefits of Being an SMC Contributor..!
    ....DEBT is nothing more than yesterday's spending taken from tomorrow's income.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wade Lippman View Post
    Other thing that annoyed me was that people couldn't even see the difference between what I made and junk.
    This is the primary challenge with direct-to-consumer for woodworkers, especially these days. A long time ago, folks appreciated workmanship and what goes into making things. Now...not so much because too many of the current consumers have never made anything themselves. They have no clue. And further to your statement, they don't get it even when you explain it! Now combine that with the dreck that so many folks are selling for next to nothing, it makes for a difficult business opportunity...
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  8. #38
    If all you need is 2K a month ($500 a week) I would rethink starting a business. A business consumes time and money, even when you're not making any profit. If it was me, I would get a part-time job, maybe at Home Depot or Ace Hardware and then also have a handyman business on the side. A friend of mine left a great sales job over a decade ago when the owner retired and left the business to his sons. He couldn't work with new bosses so he quit. As a favor to a friend, he worked part time at an Ace Hardware during the Christmas season. Customers keep asking him for referrals for local handymen. Everyone they could find was booked out a month or more in advance. We are not talking major home renovations here, just simple things like leaking toilets, bad light switches, fixing lamps and installing mailboxes. Since they couldn't find a guy, he was nice and would stop by their house after work and take of these simple jobs. Word spread around and within two to three months he had a busy part-time handyman business on the side. It now pays much more than the hardware job but he still works at the store because that's were he gets the leads. The owner knows and it's fine with him.

  9. #39
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    Nov 2007
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    NW Indiana
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    Being a handyman sounds good but I would think that you need to form a business with proper license and liability insurance.

  10. #40
    Yes, I would. Start as a sole proprietor and get liability insurance for sure. The insurance wouldn't cost that much.

  11. #41
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    Feb 2003
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    Hayes, Virginia
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    I prefer large commercial projects. Every General Contractor I have ever worked for understands that I operate a business and that means I have business expenses over and above labor costs. Things like phone bills, rent, electric bills, vehicle costs, insurance, etc. I pay taxes to the state, the federal government and then there are annual property taxes on my machines and tools. I also have to include profit and overhead in every job because its part of being in business, they are not an option.

    Dealing with the public is tough when the majority only consider my labor costs, they think in dollars per hour even though on their day job they want medical insurance, retirement and all of the other perks on top of the costs incurred to support them within their company. My investment in tools and machinery has to be recovered as does training time, design services, materials...you get the picture. Most companies charge at least three times your hourly rate to their customers for your time. This can vary considerably depending on the number of employees involved.

    Even though I can bang out a house sign for someone in a short period of time I Never offer to work for any individual, it costs me more to just discuss their needs than they are willing to pay for a completed job.
    Last edited by Keith Outten; 12-11-2018 at 12:46 AM.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Wawro View Post
    If all you need is 2K a month ($500 a week) I would rethink starting a business. A business consumes time and money, even when you're not making any profit. If it was me, I would get a part-time job, maybe at Home Depot or Ace Hardware and then also have a handyman business on the side. A friend of mine left a great sales job over a decade ago when the owner retired and left the business to his sons. He couldn't work with new bosses so he quit. As a favor to a friend, he worked part time at an Ace Hardware during the Christmas season. Customers keep asking him for referrals for local handymen. Everyone they could find was booked out a month or more in advance. We are not talking major home renovations here, just simple things like leaking toilets, bad light switches, fixing lamps and installing mailboxes. Since they couldn't find a guy, he was nice and would stop by their house after work and take of these simple jobs. Word spread around and within two to three months he had a busy part-time handyman business on the side. It now pays much more than the hardware job but he still works at the store because that's were he gets the leads. The owner knows and it's fine with him.
    Terry, this path is a good option. I've used this myself. I had always thought I'd like to get into cabinet and furniture making full time so I kept an active side business with it and construction for 20 years. When I had to switch careers several years back, it was the opportunity to go full time. Several things became obvious right away though. First, it's impossible to profitably compete with junk products which is compounded by people having no idea what is junk. Second, you will starve if people don't know you are in business. I started with grand ideas of being in my shop from 8-5 each day, and getting paid for what I enjoyed. What actually happened though, is the handyman jobs rapidly started coming in, and I spent less and less time in the shop. The jobs grew and so did the crews, overhead, costs, income and everything else. I've pretty much settled down to building new houses, large remodels and kitchen/bathroom remodels. I enjoy the kitchen/bathroom remodels the most, and a career could easily be made on those alone. At this point, I still have a shop, but I am seriously considering closing it and exclusively working out of the jobsite trailers to get rid of the overhead.

    Point is, you can take the idea as far as you want.

  13. #43
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    Feb 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Frank View Post
    Being a handyman sounds good but I would think that you need to form a business with proper license and liability insurance.
    Also check into local/state licensing requirements if any. PA fairly recently started requiring licenses for contractors. I'm not sure if a handyman would be considered a contractor but that's something to look into.
    Last edited by Curt Harms; 12-14-2018 at 8:06 AM.

  14. Retirement can be the start of a whole new career, but it doesn't have to be the same old work.
    “When you can’t find the sunshine, be the sunshine”


  15. #45
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    Apr 2010
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    Berkshire County in Western Ma
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    My son and I did handyman work for a number of years. We specifically told people, we are not contractors. If someone asked for a particular job that required a contractor, we told them just that. You need to get a permit and a licensed contractor. The one thing we found was, at a $25 per man hr rate, there was a lot of work out there doing the small stuff that contractors wouldn't bother with. And by doing good work at a fair price, there was no need to advertise. I've since sold my old truck and moved on to other things, but I still get asked if I'm doing small jobs and occasionly pick and choose a few.

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