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Thread: CNC produced boxes and ornaments

  1. #1
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    Dennis, we celebrated the Thanksgiving meal with our close friends nearby as we do most years. It was a smaller crowd now that their kids have their own families, but that meant good conversation along with the normal "over stuffing".

    A good part of my woodworking activity this past week was working on CNC produced boxes and holiday ornaments. This was all two-sided machining with 3D profiles and I'm happy with the results. The general idea is to get "some things" that I can offer all the time, both online and with a local retailer, to fill in the time between commissions. I'm pleased with the results and will be doing a little more of the same this week. All of the small stuff is cut from recycled Tigerwood deck material scraps and the two larger (heart and square) boxes are from cherry. What I do like about this stuff is that I can use materail that would otherwise be of little value for larger projects as well as material that features sapwood and other things. The technique I used was more or less the same for both the boxes and the ornaments.

    Small boxes ~4"
    Attachment 397474 Attachment 397477 Attachment 397475 Attachment 397476 Attachment 397478
    Large heart box ~6"
    Attachment 397479 Attachment 397480
    Ornaments ~3.5"
    Attachment 397481
    Attached Images Attached Images
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  2. #2
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    Square box ~6"

    IMG_2985.jpg IMG_2986.jpg

    Oh, and another ornament which is nice but takes a long time to cut...pardon the metal eye...the hole for a cord was accidentally too close to the edge, so to make this prototype useable on our own tree, I punted.

    IMG_2991.jpg
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  3. #3
    Can I ask what your run time is on those 3D carvings and how you go about pricing an item like that (not asking you to divulge your selling prices). We regularly get request for carvings like that and as soon as I apply our default rate to a 3D toolpath, setting up the job, two sided if needed, final sanding, and finishing, we are out of any reasonable ball park. I keep thinking the answer must be to reduce the hourly rate for the machine for 3D work but even then it still gets tricky especially if your talking small tapered ball nose and tight stepover.

    Be interested to hear others thoughts as well.

    Jobs like these would be where I think I'd be investing in one of Gary's small foot print, high speed, machines, to just sit there and churn out stuff like this but even at that point the run time would seem like it would have to be adjusted for its per-hour cost?

  4. #4
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    Kind of think jods like this fun to do but not going to pay the bills. To many retired guys can make extra money at it.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by eugene thomas View Post
    Kind of think jods like this fun to do but not going to pay the bills. To many retired guys can make extra money at it.
    Im with you there eugene though Jim has a good setup in the equestrian world which may help. We run into people with smaller entry level machines that are running a lot of work relatively cheaply and clearly are not quantifying actual cost or that their smaller machines may not hold up for the hours required to pay for them but Jim isnt in that camp.

    Not saying they are good or bad either way I just have often wondered in our pricing of 3D work (we dont do a ton) if there maybe shouldnt be some bit of adjustment but thats hard for me to get my head around as well.

  6. #6
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    I have largely abandoned true 3-D carving for commercial work because the run time is too long to make it worthwhile economically. There are exceptions.

  7. #7
    Those are really nice, Jim! Seems like when I do things like that with a raised image the background always has lines in it where the bit has traversed. I obviously don't have something set correctly but so seldom do anything like this that I haven't looked to see what the issue could be. Maybe that's why I don't do many jobs like this - Catch 22...

    David
    David
    CurlyWoodShop on Etsy, David Falkner on YouTube, difalkner on Instagram

  8. #8
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    Those turned out very nice and probably used up some scrap from those piles we all accumulate because we cannot throw wood away.

  9. #9
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    Mark, the run times vary with the object, but they are reasonable considering the small size and the fact that you can't really accelerate to top speed. I've been fortunate so far with the hard Tigerwood and cherry that minimal sanding in and around the carving has been necessary which is a blessing. Run times for the graphics are in the 12-20 minutes, depending on the size and specific graphic. The Celtic ornament "took forever" because it has so much Z-axis complexity. In general, I can cut "two and hour", give or take, including interruptions, mental lapses and other distractions. Not blinding fast, but fine for me to putter with finishing steps on things already cut while new ones are working on the CNC.

    Eugene, I have no intention of trying to make lots of money from these...they are "filler" products that keep my machine and I doing something while I beat clients into submission for commissions.

    David, I had to play with two things to get these to work...the model height (for everything) and the depth of the pocket on the underside of the box tops for those items. The small boxes and the ornaments are made from .500" material and my goal was to maximize that thickness. Only the horseshoe ornament deviates from that because of proportion...its final thickness is about .3125". The model heights on the ornaments and the small boxes were set to .145" and everything else was calculated accordingly. All of the similar size objects are based on the same general design which made creating the files fast once the first attempts worked out to my liking. At this point, it's just a matter of slapping an appropriately sized blank on the machine, cutting both sides (indexed with .25" dowels for the flip), cutting the tabs, sanding and slathering on the finish and flocking.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  10. #10
    Understood Jim. As I say, Im aware your figuring it all out no different than the rest of us and not being foolish about your machine time and billing. Just always interested in the math side of it all because with that type of work we just cant seem to make the numbers jive. If I were in the 2 an hour world, and then had to sand, hinge, flock, market, and sell, Im feeling like I'd be way up in the $100 range given 20mins plus on the CNC, material, drawings, and the afterwork. There is a sweet spot in there for sure. Its an interesting conversation. And agreed with all the others, very nice pieces.

  11. #11
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    Yea, sadly, there's a lot of difficulty for makers in the world because so many folks have been conditioned to look for the lowest price on things...even crafts...and unfortunately, there are too many people out there that have no idea how little they are making when they price things out. I may have to bite the bullet on some of these things eventually, but I'm going to price them the way I've been thinking to start and see what happens. Honestly, it's the same thing with my tack trunks. There is a small subset of folks who are willing to pay what I really want for the custom work. There is a broader subset who want "nice" and will pay a little more than what the garage-builders using 'borg construction materials ask. And then there are those who want a box for as little as they can possibly pay. My primary focus is that first group by choice. The realities of business now that I am officially "one of those" means I need to cater to the second group, too, and I've worked out a way to do that. That last group? "Not Interested".
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  12. #12
    Jim
    That's very impressive work in such a short time. I have followed the "focus on commercial clients first" philosophy for a number of years and have also set a minimum charge to discourage tire kickers.

    I have a retired engraver friend and he does quite well on Etsy with an easy to make item.
    Mike Null

    St. Louis Laser, Inc.

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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Null View Post

    I have a retired engraver friend and he does quite well on Etsy with an easy to make item.
    As much as I don't "enjoy" the thought of setting up on ETSY for both the effort and the fact there's no direct connection with QuickBooks including for payment services (so I have to duplicate), it's a good place to sell this kind of stuff for a little extra cash flow and can provide a lot of exposure that would otherwise, but difficult. Time will tell...

    And thanks for your kind encouragement. It's appreciated!
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Bolton View Post
    We regularly get request for carvings like that and as soon as I apply our default rate to a 3D toolpath, setting up the job, two sided if needed, final sanding, and finishing, we are out of any reasonable ball park.
    The thing is, if it's moving, it doesn't care what it's cutting and it pretty much wears the same. These machines are expensive, I'm hoping to wear mine out quickly, but not without being able to pay for a few dozen more machines in the process.

  15. #15
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    Mark, I think your $100 estimate is pretty close.

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