Electric cars

[Roger Feeley]

One of the coolest innovations is by Bollinger. They realized that since there is no engine up front, they could put a tailgate in the front of the vehicle and you can run a 16' board through the bed, through the passenger compartment and out the front.

https://www.bollingermotors.com/#image-gallery-39

I don't know if it will ever see the light of day but I like the idea.

[Roger Feeley]

My biggest concern about electric vehicles is the availability of rare earths, specifically neodymium for magnets. Presently, China controls some 87% of the worlds supply or rare earth elements (REE) and that needs to change. Without an alternative source, we are just trading one sort of cartel for another.

There are plenty of REEs around but not in sufficient concentration. For instance, if you refine the REEs out of coal fly ash, you can get about 135lbs but you have to process 125 tons of fly ash to get there.

I would prefer to see super strong magnets made from some more available materials like nickel.

[Rick Potter]

Don't forget there are three basic kinds of electrified cars, to meet needs of different people.

1: Hybrids, like the regular Prius, use the gas motor almost all the time, with battery operation for short distances, and at stop lights, etc. My Daughter had one and averaged about 50 MPG overall.

2: Plug in Hybrids. Lots of them around, they go a certain distance on battery (20-50 miles or so), then switch to the gas motor. At this point they operate like the above Hybrids until charged up.

3: All electric: BEV's (battery electric vehicles), like the Tesla, run entirely on electricity. This type is the only one with what is called 'range anxiety'. Every year the new ones get better range. The new Kia Soul will have over 250 miles or more, as does the Chevy Bolt.

Every person's needs vary. In my case, I put solar on the house and was producing more than I used. I bought a 2013 Ford C-Max Energi (plug in hybrid). The wife liked it enough to take it away from me, and I bought another. A 2014, just like it. They go about 20 miles then switch to gas.

These cars have about 25K on each. Each one has been driven to visit friends in Idaho, averaging 37MPG using all gas.
Our normal running around is mostly done on electric, if we run out it switches to gas almost undetectably. We plug the car in every time we get home no matter how much power we used. This allows us to hop in a fully charged car every time we leave the garage.

We normally fill up on gas about every four months. There is a meter on the dash that keeps track of the gas mileage, based only on the gasoline used. Her car reads 140 MPG since new, mine reads 104. Mine runs out of juice more often because of where I go, so gas use is higher.

The new Porsche Panamera coming out in a few months is reported to be a plug in hybrid, along with other expensive European cars. Plug in hybrids are being quickly developed because of new European and Chinese laws.

Hope this background info is informative for those who have little electric car experience..

[Alan Rutherford]

We just upgraded from a 2005 Prius to a 2015 Prius and have been very happy with both. We didn't buy the first one because it was a Prius - it was just a decent car, right size, right price. The current one is all that but this time we wanted another Prius. I'm not at all opposed to all-electric but hybrid is here now and needs no charging stations. With about 10 gallons usable in the tank it has a range on the highway of 450- 500 miles and "recharges" at any gas station in the time it takes to pump less than 10 gallons.

Consumer Reports a few years ago said electricity for the Tesla cost $.04 per mile, assuming an average cost for electricity. That's also what we were paying for gas for the Prius (more like $.05/mile now) and it costs a lot less to buy a Prius.

What I'm anxious to see is self-driving cars and we're getting there. I expect this to be the last conventional car we buy. I want a car where I can say "Go get washed, get an oil change and pick up the groceries", slap it on the rump and watch it go. It's coming.

[Jim Koepke]

Wouldn't the head lights give you a clue they were coming?

The road is a rather winding road in the hills. From the direction behind me when walking to my mailbox, there wouldn't be much headlight observation before the car was right on me.

My trip to the mailbox during the dark days of winter has my paying more attention when out on the road. Though now my worries are also valid in the summer when there is no need for headlights, the car is still very quiet.

jtk

[Steve Eure]

I would be interested in seeing what the electric demands would be if the majority of people started driving EV's. Our energy companies are barely keeping pace with the electrical demands now, and with the added demand for charging batteries it could overwhelm them. Of course I sure they are working on a fix for that also.

[Art Mann]

When we run out of fossil fuels, we won't be driving very far, even if we have electric cars. Very little electricity is now generated by renewable resources and the current renewable sources can't be ramped up to the levels required to replace fossil fuels. That is just wishful thinking. There are no other options available, with the possible exception of nuclear energy.

As far as the environment goes, it is in better shape now than it has been in the last 50 years I have been paying attention to it.

For people who continue to slander electric cars, what is the big plan after we run out of gas, coal, clean air and clean water? We can't just do nothing about it when there are options available.

[Yathin Krishnappa]

As far as the environment goes, it is in better shape now than it has been in the last 50 years I have been paying attention to it.

Are you trying to troll or do you really believe that?

When we run out of fossil fuels, we won't be driving very far, even if we have electric cars. Very little electricity is now generated by renewable resources and the current renewable sources can't be ramped up to the levels required to replace fossil fuels. That is just wishful thinking. There are no other options available, with the possible exception of nuclear energy.

The solar panels on my house power my and my wife's 40 mile commutes each day. I'm sure that distance is more than a majority of daily commutes around the world. So, if we all had daily drivers powered by renewable sources, we can save the use of fossil fuels for things that really need them - heavy machinery, military and such...

We will get there.

[Terry Hatfield]

We campaigned an electric powered dragster for a few years. Really fun and satisfying project once we figured out how to stop destroying a motor every time I hit the pedal. Of course we were sending 200 volts and 2000 amps to a golf cart motor so there is that. lol... Anyway, as to the silence of electric, it was interesting for me to have to say "excuse me" over and over again as I moved thru the staging lanes and onto the track. The little dragster garnered little attention until people saw it rip off 100 mph 1/8th mile passes. Then our pit was filled with folks with lots of questions. No clue what any of this has to do with this discussion but thought I'd share anyway.

[Edwin Santos]

Are you trying to troll or do you really believe that?




The solar panels on my house power my and my wife's 40 mile commutes each day. I'm sure that distance is more than a majority of daily commutes around the world. So, if we all had daily drivers powered by renewable sources, we can save the use of fossil fuels for things that really need them - heavy machinery, military and such...

We will get there.

I'm betting you're absolutely correct. It's undeniable that none of us can see the future. So we all suffer from some degree of blindness looking forward.
Add to this our individual biases, insecurities, preferences, etc.
But we can all see the past in 20/20 and I'd say where we are today with electric vehicles and technology in general would have been unthinkable to 99% of the population, myself included, only 20 years ago.
So if this is any indication, I'd say it's hard to declare with a whole lot of conviction that electric vehicles will be limited, inadequate, etc. etc., or that anything will take a "long, long time".

In the same way that the Earth is spinning at 1,000 mph but we don't feel it, the technology is evolving more rapidly than we truly notice.

On a partially related note, I wonder how much range anxiety existed in the early days of the automobile before gas and service stations became abundant? Just like gas station attendants are now only found in history books and period movies, it may not be long before gas stations themselves are a relic of the past. Remember milk delivery and film photo processing places?
More recently, remember software stores where you would go and buy physical boxed software? I remember an interview with Larry Ellison about 15 years ago where he said the idea of getting in your car, driving to a store, buying a box of software on a CD, driving home, and installing it on your computer would feel as primitive as setting down your club and starting a fire by banging two flint rocks together.

We're all in for a great ride,

[Mike Cutler]

Electric vehicles are coming. It will take time to develop the infrastructure, but it will happen.
In the early days of gasoline powered vehicles, trips revolved around the location of "Filling Stations". As the demand for these increased, the need was met. The same will happen with the electric cars. Right now they are suited to the more urban environment, but will expand.
Renewable energies will certainly progress also, but this thread was about cars.

Art Mann
"As far as the environment goes, it is in better shape now than it has been in the last 50 years I have been paying attention to it."

Yathin Krishnappa
"Are you trying to troll or do you really believe that?"

I do not believe that Art is "trolling". I also agree with Art. I am 59 years old and I can tell you that we are much better off today, than in 1978.
The US has increased it's population by 150 million people since 1968, and a 125million since 1978. The time frame between 1968 and 1978 was probably the beginning of the environmental awareness in the country. Also the beginning of some of the government agencies that regulate environmental cleanliness.
For having an increase in 150 million people over the past 50 years, we are a lot better off environmentally than where we were in 1978. Had we not had the awareness that began in the late 60's, going outside today would be just awful.
This isn't trolling, this is the experience of living through all of these changes.

I work in a facility that puts 2200 Megawatts to the grid with zero carbon pollution, in any weather condition. Yet we are not the future. People want to believe in "free energy", such as solar panels, but it doesn't exist. Energy is not free, there is always a price.

[Bryan Lisowski]

To me, the cost of entry is still one of the biggest issues I see. The other is range. I know if I have to make a 600 mile trip, I'm going to have to stop for gas, but that only takes a few minutes, and is easy to find. I don't know how long it takes to fully charge a tesla so my next point may not be relevant. I would be interested to know if one of the gas companies (Exxon, Shell, or BP) decided to put charging stations at their traditional locations and charge a fee, would it make electric vehicles more realistic.

[Dan Friedrichs]

As far as the environment goes, it is in better shape now than it has been in the last 50 years I have been paying attention to it.

An interesting comment, given the timing. Did you miss the news of the report indicating that immediate action is needed to prevent catastrophic loss of life and massive reduction in GDP due to pollution from burning fossil fuels? It's very short-sighted to say, "Well when I was a kid, we saw soot everywhere, but now I don't see that, so pollution must be gone"

A major limiter of renewable energy is storage. Electric cars are distributed storage. We can rely more heavily on alternative energy when it can be stored in all the cars plugged in and not in use.

[John Goodin]

My wife works in the technology and transportation policy field and electric and autonomous vechiles are coming — faster than most people realize. Most of the major manufacturers are sinking big bucks into autonomous car R&D including GM, Ford, the Japanese manufacturers, even Google and Apple. Range anxiety is a big issue with all electric which can be offset with plug in hybrids until the range improves. I wonder if restaurants, Starbucks, etc along interstates will add charging stations if all electrics become popular — stop for a meal or coffee get a free charge. I know many hotels have added charging stations. It can be a good way to attract customers.

[Dave Lehnert]