Electric cars

[Bob Turkovich]

Hopefully this won't lead this thread into a political discussion...

The previous administration directed an aggressive push by the EPA to increase fuel economy standards - starting in 2020 and escalating thru 2025 - which would result in a major reduction in the emission footprint. The only way for the auto manufacturers to achieve this would be to significantly increase the fleet percentage sales of low emission and zero emission vehicles (i.e., hybrids, full electric vehicles or other alternative fuel options). This is probably a major contributor to an aura of electric vehicles being forced upon the public.

The current administration has suspended this initiative calling on the EPA and the Department of Transportation to develop a more "realistic" (my quotes) plan which is to be disclosed later this winter.

Being a retired automotive engineer (with most of my experience in powertrain), I'm finding this discussion to be quite entertaining while remaining civil.


(Wow! Multiple posts while I was composing this. Maybe I should consider retracting my "civil" comment.)

[Brian Henderson]

"Fancy parking spot"? Do you consider gas pumps "fancy parking spots"? If you needed gas and someone pulled a giant trailer in front of the pumps, would you "LOL" about it?

No, I'd go to a different gas station that's probably across the street. You know, because they exist. The infrastructure for electric simply doesn't exist yet, so drivers think they can inconvenience others and demand preferential treatment because they've got their little plug in cars. Presumably, you're talking about a public parking lot. Outside of governmentally protected handicapped spaces, anyone can park in any other spot they want. Just because you have chosen to have special needs doesn't require anyone else to cater to those needs.

[Malcolm McLeod]

Wait! You need a context for that? Are you a guy who will park in a handicap spot or a fire lane if there is no other spot?

Also, the fusion reactor is shared — you can use it too. Nothing personal about it.

By the way, about subsidies for electrics — please comment about it only if you’ve never taken a tax break or done a tax write off. The electric subsidy is just another tax break like every other tax handout. No one buys electrics for the tax break. I would buy one even if there was no tax break.

The Tesla supercharger spots are generally privately-owned parking spots and are clearly marked as being reserved for EVs. So, I have limited sympathy for someone parking their toy-hauling trailer on private property when signage explicitly tells them not to do that.

Man! Y'all can sure tell a lot about a person you've 'met' only in a snapshot. Of their vehicle.

(And I was referring to the personal-sized Mr. Fusion. My bad.)

[Yathin Krishnappa]

Man! Y'all can sure tell a lot about a person you've 'met' only in a snapshot. Of their vehicle.

(And I was referring to the personal-sized Mr. Fusion. My bad.)

Yep. The Internet can definitely be a difficult place for discussions. Especially on “charged” topics. :-)

[Yonak Hawkins]

This conversation is sort of a microcosm of larger conversations and movements in our Country and around the World today. Each side feels they are being preached to or coerced by the other. Each side to some extent is forcing the other to do or depriving the other from doing what they believe is the right thing.

Why can't we all act on our own beliefs and value systems and yet feel we have the right to freely state our opinions (a right guaranteed in the US Constitution, and other places) while the others take these statements for what they are .. beliefs and opinions that may or may not influence thinking ?

[Dan Friedrichs]

No, I'd go to a different gas station that's probably across the street. You know, because they exist. The infrastructure for electric simply doesn't exist yet, so drivers think they can inconvenience others and demand preferential treatment because they've got their little plug in cars. Presumably, you're talking about a public parking lot. Outside of governmentally protected handicapped spaces, anyone can park in any other spot they want. Just because you have chosen to have special needs doesn't require anyone else to cater to those needs.

Brian, I think you misunderstand. Where in the country are you finding "public" parking lots? If you stop and think about it for a minute, I think you'd realize that most "public" parking is actually owned by private companies. They are free to choose to install charging spots wherever they like. If they think a row of superchargers will attract the kind of customer they want, then they may choose to install them.

The Home Depot near me has extra-long parking spots for people with trailers. An accommodation to attract customers with trailers.
The upscale grocery store near me has EV charging spots. I know folks who go to that store just to charge their car.

It's not EV owners "inconveniencing" or "demanding" or having "special needs". It's just market forces at work.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Man! Y'all can sure tell a lot about a person you've 'met' only in a snapshot. Of their vehicle.

(And I was referring to the personal-sized Mr. Fusion. My bad.)

Malcolm, I apologize that my "toy-hauling" comment probably sounded derisive. Not my intent. Sorry.

[Lee DeRaud]

Really? I guess that's a privilege of the left coast where there is a law for everything and some you haven't thought of. Obviously it's not a big box store where trailers would be welcome but I travel over a large area and my work truck doesn't fit in a standard space. I have yet to park somewhere it's illegal that I am filling more than one space.

Please tell me where it's legal to park across multiple spots, I'll be sure to avoid it.
Look at that picture again: we're not talking about a work/delivery truck. Serve him right if somebody parked his car in the spot in front of him and another in the spot behind him, and then went to a movie.

[Brian Henderson]

Brian, I think you misunderstand. Where in the country are you finding "public" parking lots? If you stop and think about it for a minute, I think you'd realize that most "public" parking is actually owned by private companies. They are free to choose to install charging spots wherever they like. If they think a row of superchargers will attract the kind of customer they want, then they may choose to install them.

The Home Depot near me has extra-long parking spots for people with trailers. An accommodation to attract customers with trailers.
The upscale grocery store near me has EV charging spots. I know folks who go to that store just to charge their car.

It's not EV owners "inconveniencing" or "demanding" or having "special needs". It's just market forces at work.

It is a publicly accessible parking lot, not gated off or controlled. Unlike handicapped spots, there is no legal protection to those spots, if you call the cops, they will not come out and tow or ticket a non-electric vehicle in those spots. You might not like that, you might be relying on those spots to charge your car, but you have no legal right to those spots. That's the point I was making.

[Dan Friedrichs]

It is a publicly accessible parking lot, not gated off or controlled. Unlike handicapped spots, there is no legal protection to those spots, if you call the cops, they will not come out and tow or ticket a non-electric vehicle in those spots. You might not like that, you might be relying on those spots to charge your car, but you have no legal right to those spots. That's the point I was making.

No one has a legal right to the spots - they're on private property. The cops may not tow the truck, but certainly the owner of the parking lot could have the vehicle towed.

[Nicholas Lawrence]

Please tell me where it's legal to park across multiple spots, I'll be sure to avoid it.
Look at that picture again: we're not talking about a work/delivery truck. Serve him right if somebody parked his car in the spot in front of him and another in the spot behind him, and then went to a movie.

I was at the courthouse the other day and a tractor trailer was parked across like 15 spots, pretty much just like the guy in the picture, just on a bigger scale. Nobody ticketed or towed him. He had a hearing and he had to work. What was he supposed to do?

I think the point a couple of folks have been trying to make is that there is a bit of an assumption of bad motives on the driver's part that may or may not be true. He may not even know what the things are. I live in a pretty Tesla heavy part of the country, but I've never seen one of those charging stations, even in pictures until today.

[Yathin Krishnappa]

I was at the courthouse the other day and a tractor trailer was parked across like 15 spots, pretty much just like the guy in the picture, just on a bigger scale. Nobody ticketed or towed him. He had a hearing and he had to work. What was he supposed to do?

I wouldn't be upset about it and you can understand when people need extra spaces.

More about the Tesla charging spots and the truck: This parking lot was in a mall and there was a lot of space further away from the entrances. This guy had just gone to Dick's Sporting Goods which was close to the chargers. I had to wait (~20 minutes I think) until he came and he just had a smirk on his face and there was no apology. If anyone thinks that behavior is alright, then there's no point arguing with them. Sorry, I should have put this info in the original post as it would have saved a ton of comments. :-)

[Edwin Santos]

Even if there weren't chargers there, that idiot is parked illegally.

Or at the very least, he is being rude and inconsiderate to his fellow human beings.

[Edwin Santos]

I wouldn't be upset about it and you can understand when people need extra spaces.

More about the Tesla charging spots and the truck: This parking lot was in a mall and there was a lot of space further away from the entrances. This guy had just gone to Dick's Sporting Goods which was close to the chargers. I had to wait (~20 minutes I think) until he came and he just had a smirk on his face and there was no apology. If anyone thinks that behavior is alright, then there's no point arguing with them. Sorry, I should have put this info in the original post as it would have saved a ton of comments. :-)

I'll never know what was going through that guy's mind, but hearing confirmation that there were other spaces further away makes his choice really disappointing. I wonder why and when political differences granted a license to abandon common courtesy. And worse yet, so long as the victim is in the other camp, it becomes funny and deserves a hearty LOL.

[Steve Demuth]

It is a publicly accessible parking lot, not gated off or controlled. Unlike handicapped spots, there is no legal protection to those spots, if you call the cops, they will not come out and tow or ticket a non-electric vehicle in those spots. You might not like that, you might be relying on those spots to charge your car, but you have no legal right to those spots. That's the point I was making.

Depends on where you live. 8 states have laws prohibiting parking of a non-pluggable vehicle at a charging station.

And as others have pointed out, the spots are almost all private, provided by a business for their customers, on the business' terms. The person blocking a charging station has absolutely no right in law or equity to do so.