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Thread: LAguna 24-36 Spindle getting quite warm

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
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    Melbourne Australia
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    LAguna 24-36 Spindle getting quite warm

    I have a new Laguna 24-36 lathe and have been using it since Monday after assembling and checking things on Saturday and Sunday. On Monday I did some spindle turning, about 2½ hours worth. As I was cleaning up, I noted that the tapered dome that holds the bearings and from where the drive spindle appears, was warm; I expected that.

    On Tuesday I did another 1-2 hours of spindle turning and ran my hand along the cast housing of the dome taper and noted it was reasonably warm. I then knocked out the spur drive. It was at this point I noted the spur drive was quite warm, warm enough to make me put my fingers on the bearing steel to see if that was hot, it wasn't really, however I have limited feel in my fingers so I am a little unsure, but it certainly wasn't cool either. The spindle threads were also as warm as the spur drive, which makes sense.

    Today I didn't run the lathe, but a friend came around and we inspected the new lathe. It happened to be in the high speed setting and after switching it on and running it for about 30 seconds at low speeds, he asked how fast can it spin. I dialed the unit right up to maximum, which is 3,500rpm for maybe 5 seconds then pulled it down and after a total running time of around a minute, I stopped the lathe.

    I then mentioned to him the heat I felt the day before, so we inspected the spindle and couldn't believe that it was quite warm to touch from such a small time of spinning without any load at all.

    We talked about it and wondered if it was either a feature of the lathe design, or maybe the bearing is quite tight and at this early stage of its life, it is just running hot and over time this should reduce.

    I am not overly concerned, but, as almost nobody in this country has these lathes, I thought I would put it out in this forum.

    Thoughts, experiences?

    Mick.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Sioux Falls, SD
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    372
    That has to be the bearing. If it got warm spinning with no load what else could it be? That lathe has a hand wheel opposite the spindle right? Was that warm at all? How many spindle bearings does that big lathe have? Were you able to feel all of them when you checked the bearing and it was cool? If it were me I'd contact Laguna and discuss it with them and at least have them log it in case it continues to get worse and needs warranty work. I don't know what the warranty is on that lathe but if it fails outside of that period due to what you describe maybe your logging the complaint will get you some help. Just spit-balling here.
    USMC '97-'01

  3. I bought the Revo 24/36 about three months ago. After two months of not too much use, I noticed a noise at the spindle area when the lathe was spinning at about 200 rpm. Not long thereafter, while turning a bottle stopper, I removed the spur drive to insert the threaded arbor to hold the stopper. When I took the spur drive out, it was hot; more so than I would expect. When I removed the arbor, it too was hot. The spindle area continued to make a noise; my diagnosis was a bad bearing. When I contacted Laguna customer support, the support rep had me go through a couple of "diagnostic" tests. He had me remove the belt so the motor would run without turning the spindle; no more bad sound. He then had me put the belt back on the pulley for the low speed range (I had been running it on the high range pulley); the sound was louder than on the high speed pulley. Perhaps your lathe came out of the same production run as mine, and there was a problem with that lot. In any event, he was unsure if it was a bad bearing, or something else in the head-stock that was rubbing. Without further discussion he said he was going to have a new head-stock shipped, which is due to arrive today. Once I'm up and running with the new head-stock, I'll report back. Kudos to Laguna for their excellent customer service.

  4. I did a deep dive on the schematics of the Revo 24/36, and a few other lathes, and went with the Grizzly G0800 instead. The Revo has two bearings on the spindle which are smaller in size than the 3 massive bearings on the G0800, all bigger than a baseball. It is built heavier than the Revo, and back a few weeks ago, there was a new owner of the Revo 24/36 who had problems with low power issues. He sold the Revo and purchased a Vicmarc, then the new owner traced the electrical issue to a bad connection somewhere in the circuitry. The story was posted on the AAW forum.

    I have had zero issues with my G0800, and I have turned some really big/heavy wood on it, and it has tons of torque at low speed......an awesome machine, heavy duty in every aspect and design. At this point I couldn’t be happier!

    I think there have been several issues spoken to on the various forums regarding the Revo 24/36...I have only seen good reports about the Revo 18/36 so far. I guess they have a few kinks to take care of with the 24/36. Giving this info on what I have seen for others who may want to research for the info.
    Remember, in a moments time, everything can change!

    Vision - not just seeing what is, but seeing what can be!




  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
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    Melbourne Australia
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    I eventually spoke to the people who sold my lathe to my good self, instantly he suggested that it was probably an adjustment; has had one other like description from a customer on an 18-36. He mentioned it is a very quick and easy fix, assuming it is what he believes it is. He will be coming out on Monday to do the adjustment, I'll be supplying the coffee; we'll see.

    There is no noise emanating from the lathe at all, apart from the fan noise in the electric motor.

    In fact the lathe is deceptively quiet after about 5 years with my Nova 16-24-48.

    Today I compared my new lathe to a Vicmarc VL175SH I was using all of this morning. Things were different to my Laguna and I could notice them more easily as I have completed about 5 hours of turning on the 24-36 since Monday. I like my Laguna.

    Roger Chandler, I would have like to compared a Grizzly lathe to a Laguna lathe, but I have never seen one, nor heard of one, in this country.

    Edward Weingarten, your experiences are interesting. As for whether or not yours and mine came from the same batch, I'm not sure, but my machine was manufactured in August 2018, if the serial number is what I believe it is. I'll be awaiting your outcome with interest.

    Adam Petersen, Your thoughts were pretty much the same as mine. The hand wheel, was not warm at all. That said, warm is subjective as it is Summer time here. My shed is an unlined stand alone steel garage, so it is hot if it's hot and cool to cold when it is cold.

    As far as whatever it is that could be wrong; if in fact there is something wrong, it isn't something to get too worried about. Essentially, the lathe is a mass of metal in a shape conducive to turning wood. If a bearing goes, replacement is easy. If the VFD goes, replacement is easy; one just has to get the appropriate unit, which I know may not be that easy to source. But, whatever wears out, breaks, or is not running too well, it won't be an issue. What could be an issue is if things didn't align or castings were not too good, or the welding wasn't that flash.

    Speaking of welding, the bed is welded to a pair of steel plates, two plates at each end. These plates have holes where bolts go through and the bed is attached to the legs. The weld on that steel, will not be an issue, but all of the welds are ever so slightly undercut. One assumes a machine welded all of these welds, maybe it was running a tad fast.

    Having lived some part of my life in interesting and remote rural areas of this country, one is quite practiced in getting things up and running by whatever means is needed with whatever stuff is to hand that can be made to do the job.

    Mick.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    E TN, near Knoxville
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    12,298
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick Fagan View Post
    I eventually spoke to the people who sold my lathe.... He mentioned it is a very quick and easy fix, assuming it is what he believes it is. He will be coming out on Monday to do the adjustment, I'll be supplying the coffee; we'll see.
    Please report back with just what needed adjustment is and how he fixed it. (photo, sketch if appropriate?) I'm just curious, but someone else may benefit later!

    JKJ

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2011
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    Sioux Falls, SD
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    372
    I hope you figure it out and it is minor. I like those lathes a lot and someday hope to get one, so it'll be nice to hear that they work any issues out. I'll say this too, you have a great attitude about this. That is impressive.
    USMC '97-'01

  8. #8
    From the description, there is no doubt that the heat is coming from the bearings. That does not necessarily mean the bearings are bad, it could be that there is excessive preload (probably the adjustment mentioned).
    _______________________________________
    When failure is not an option
    Mediocre is assured.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Mick Fagan View Post
    I
    Roger Chandler, I would have like to compared a Grizzly lathe to a Laguna lathe, but I have never seen one, nor heard of one, in this country. Mick.
    Mick...here is the story related to Laguna vs. Grizzly on the Revo model and the G0799 and G0800. First here's a pic for you to see the G0800


    The Harvey Industries Co. is the maker for the Powermatic line of lathes, and also for Laguna's Revo line and Grizzly's G0800, G0799 and G0835. Of course each lathe is made to specs of the individual vendor, and that accounts for differences in design, features and build. For example, the REVO line has steel bed ways, where the Grizzly has an all cast build. The Revo has the movable pendant feature [nice!] where the Grizzly does not.

    That being said, when I did the deep dive into the schematics of the lathes I was considering, which I was actually saving for a Robust American Beauty [super lathe, and I have had turning sessions on one] and I was considering a Oneway 2436 [I have a friend who has one] and of course the Laguna Revo 2436 and the Grizzly G0800.

    With the turning I do, which involves some big heavy wood, and wanting what I considered to be a high end lathe that had the power, weight and heavy duty build, I chose the Grizzly G0800. I could have gotten the Robust AB, or any other lathe I wanted, and also had turned on the nearly 1600 lb. Serious SL2542. I wanted the sliding headstock feature, and the heavy duty build, and the Serious did not have the sliding headstock.

    As to build, the G0800 has 3 large heavy rated bearings, and all three are bigger than a baseball in diameter, where the Revo 2436 has two bearings which are smaller with less dynamic load rating. That is fine for most folks probably because they likely do not put as heavy wood blanks on their machine. Once in a while are fine, but a steady diet of large wood probably will show up in worn out bearings. It's sort of like having a small pickup vs. a super duty pickup with the heavy frame, powerful engine, and other features that make it ready for heavy duty work.

    Another thing was the inverter/motor combo difference. The Laguna Revo uses an older Delta S-1 inverter for their machine, which is on the lower end of the technology that is available, but it has been a good workhorse inverter used on the Powermatic lines and the Lagunas as well. The Grizzly G0800 uses an advanced induction motor with the latest advanced Delta EL-240 inverter, which allows a full 3 hp output vs a 3 hp input only, so the motor power is fully available.

    The information from Harvey Industries is the Harvey Turbo-60 lathe [their flagship model] and the G0800 are almost identical, except that the T-60 uses a DC motor because it sells all over the world, and that seems to accommodate the market, but here in the USA, they use the A/C motor inverter combo, as that is what is desired by turners here in America.

    The G0800 has a swing away tailstock feature, a bed extension available [I have that on mine] and in stock configuration has 48" between centers for longer spindle turning such as bed posts, etc, and with the bed extension can turn 66" between centers. The extension is configurable to either end of the bed or on the mounting area on front of he massive cast iron bed near the headstock if one wanted to put it there. It has a cone heastock feature like the Revo 2436, and it is heavier. I have never seen any better machining on any lathe from any manufacturer, including the Robust lathe I have turned on and seen up close from vendors at the symposiums I have attended. It is absolutely top grade machining! Fit, finish, and machining are superb!

    The G0800 has superb torque at low speeds and is as smooth and powerful as any lathe I've turned on. The warranty is longer on the Robust and its made in the USA, and a longer warranty is also on the Powermatics. I have turned on the PM 3520b numerous times - too many to count- and eleven different lathes to date on that model........ I like the 3520b, but hands down would take the G0800 over it any day of the week! Again PM and the Grizzly G0800, G0799 and G0835 are all made by Harvey Industries Machine Co.

    So, there you have the back story on the comparisons, and you can see the G0800 at Grizzly.com if you are so inclined. I post this by way of providing info for interested persons, and to answer your comment above. So many folks don't realize how fine a lathe Grizzly is now providing, and I would encourage others who might be interested to take a serious look for themselves. Only they know what they truly want in a lathe, and how a certain model will fit their needs.

    Good luck Mick, with your Revo repairs....I hope it goes well for you!
    Remember, in a moments time, everything can change!

    Vision - not just seeing what is, but seeing what can be!




  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    E TN, near Knoxville
    Posts
    12,298

    spindle play adjustment

    As Dennis mentioned, the spindle play adjustment may be too tight.

    From the my Powermatic 3520b, in the section on how to check and adjust the spindle play:

    CAUTION - Do not over tighten the bearing lock nut or
    the spindle bearings will overheat.


    pm_spindle_adj.jpg

    I adjusted mine when I got the lathe.

    You might check your manual to see if Laguna provides similar instructions. Or compare the PM picture and instructions with what is on your lathe, perhaps it has a similar adjustment but in a different place, i.e. inside the headstock instead of outside. Might be something you can do yourself and save the nice service guy the visit.

    If they don't provide a good manual, shame on them!


    JKJ

  11. #11
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    Mar 2018
    Location
    Melbourne Australia
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    John K. Jordan, I certainly will report back, if possible I'll get some pictures. As for the owners manual......... Essentially, apart from a quick start guide section, which is basically how to assemble things, it is a glorified parts manual. I do agree that it should have some basic stuff, but I suppose this is the way things are with this company. Nice parts manual though.

    Adam Pearson, thank you and I hope you will get the lathe of your choice down the track.

    Dennis Ford, I pretty much agree with you, as it is brand new; in fact the first time I have purchased a big machine brand new for personal use, I decided to telephone and ask if a hot spur drive was standard. The warranty specifically states that it is return to vendor in the same packaging, or like packaging for any warranty work. If they think customers are going to pack up 300 + Kg of lathe for small things like that, they must be living in banana land. Fortunately I live in a big city and the state distributor is in the same city and he's pretty good to boot; had machinery purchases with him before.

    Roger Chandler, nothing like a super reply like that to make one choke over my breakfast muesli.

    Very interesting stuff you posted, also, I can see the familial resemblance. Your machine of choice obviously takes after the fathers side of the family, while my machine of choice takes after the mothers side of the family.

    My choice of lathes was pretty much anything that I wanted, but what I wished a lathe to do certainly narrowed my choice considerably. Availability of pretty much everything you have mentioned in this country, is almost non existent.

    Vicmarc lathes are everywhere in this country, so I have used quite various range of them, from the VM100, VM150, and the venerable VL175SH (Long bed, Swivel Head) which is seemingly owned and used by squillions of turners along with a handful of VM300 units. I really gave the VM300 very serious consideration, I know I can turn on the other side of the head, instead of a sliding head stock, but that doesn't turn me on. I even telephoned Vicmarc in the first quarter of this year as to whether they had anything new coming.... sort of but not really. Whatever it is, I understood it would be called a 600 and I would probably have to mortgage the house for the deposit. Using Vicmarc terminology, it would seem that whatever their lathe is, it would possibly be able to turn 1200mm (approximately 4'). Which is getting into serious stuff, the type of stuff a VB36 from Steinert in Germany is capable of before lunch. I've seen a VB36 lathe in Germany, I think you would like what they are capable of. Thought briefly of a VB36, but cost would be around $15,000 AUD without any accessories landed in Australia.

    In the end, I chose a Laguna Revo 24-36 with all the fruit; which incidentally, is cheaper than a bog standard VM300 short bed lathe, although it comes with a Vicmarc cap.

    As a matter of interest, do you know who designed these family(ies) of lathes? Was it one (presumably old and wise) wood turner, or was it a collaboration?

    Mick. Who is immensely satisfied after a Saturday of effortless spindle turning.

    Ps: Roger, a set of bearings sourced from a local bearing supply, is $56.75.

  12. Mick, I think it is likely that the preset load on your bearings are a bit tight, and if it has a spanner nut on the spindle to hold tension against the bearing, you could back that off a tad, and you’d be good to go. If replacement bearings have to be installed, you still have a fine lathe, and just end up dealing with frustration and a repair, which will go away in short order once successfully completed. Good luck....hope you have it fixed by Christmas!
    Last edited by Roger Chandler; 11-30-2018 at 8:13 AM.
    Remember, in a moments time, everything can change!

    Vision - not just seeing what is, but seeing what can be!




  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Cambridge Vermont
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    2,282
    I think what John posted is your answer. They are just standard ball bearings which are mainly designed for a radial load. That nut applies an axial load. Too little and the spindle with slide back and forth, too much and it'll put too much sideways (axial) pressure on the bearing not allowing the grease in the bearing to do it's job. I suspect the guy coming out is just going to adjust that nut. I would ask questions and learn what he is doing so if you ever have to replace the bearings (years down the road) you can set it up correctly. It's good that you caught it now as it could be years before the bearings prematurely wore out but too much load in the wrong direction will reduce their life.

  14. #14
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    Nov 2009
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    4,445
    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Chandler View Post
    Mick...here is the story related to Laguna vs. Grizzly on the Revo model and the G0799 and G0800. First here's a pic for you to see the G0800


    The Harvey Industries Co. is the maker for the Powermatic line of lathes, and also for Laguna's Revo line and Grizzly's G0800, G0799 and G0835. Of course each lathe is made to specs of the individual vendor, and that accounts for differences in design, features and build. For example, the REVO line has steel bed ways, where the Grizzly has an all cast build. The Revo has the movable pendant feature [nice!] where the Grizzly does not.

    That being said, when I did the deep dive into the schematics of the lathes I was considering, which I was actually saving for a Robust American Beauty [super lathe, and I have had turning sessions on one] and I was considering a Oneway 2436 [I have a friend who has one] and of course the Laguna Revo 2436 and the Grizzly G0800.

    With the turning I do, which involves some big heavy wood, and wanting what I considered to be a high end lathe that had the power, weight and heavy duty build, I chose the Grizzly G0800. I could have gotten the Robust AB, or any other lathe I wanted, and also had turned on the nearly 1600 lb. Serious SL2542. I wanted the sliding headstock feature, and the heavy duty build, and the Serious did not have the sliding headstock.

    As to build, the G0800 has 3 large heavy rated bearings, and all three are bigger than a baseball in diameter, where the Revo 2436 has two bearings which are smaller with less dynamic load rating. That is fine for most folks probably because they likely do not put as heavy wood blanks on their machine. Once in a while are fine, but a steady diet of large wood probably will show up in worn out bearings. It's sort of like having a small pickup vs. a super duty pickup with the heavy frame, powerful engine, and other features that make it ready for heavy duty work.

    Another thing was the inverter/motor combo difference. The Laguna Revo uses an older Delta S-1 inverter for their machine, which is on the lower end of the technology that is available, but it has been a good workhorse inverter used on the Powermatic lines and the Lagunas as well. The Grizzly G0800 uses an advanced induction motor with the latest advanced Delta EL-240 inverter, which allows a full 3 hp output vs a 3 hp input only, so the motor power is fully available.

    The information from Harvey Industries is the Harvey Turbo-60 lathe [their flagship model] and the G0800 are almost identical, except that the T-60 uses a DC motor because it sells all over the world, and that seems to accommodate the market, but here in the USA, they use the A/C motor inverter combo, as that is what is desired by turners here in America.

    The G0800 has a swing away tailstock feature, a bed extension available [I have that on mine] and in stock configuration has 48" between centers for longer spindle turning such as bed posts, etc, and with the bed extension can turn 66" between centers. The extension is configurable to either end of the bed or on the mounting area on front of he massive cast iron bed near the headstock if one wanted to put it there. It has a cone heastock feature like the Revo 2436, and it is heavier. I have never seen any better machining on any lathe from any manufacturer, including the Robust lathe I have turned on and seen up close from vendors at the symposiums I have attended. It is absolutely top grade machining! Fit, finish, and machining are superb!

    The G0800 has superb torque at low speeds and is as smooth and powerful as any lathe I've turned on. The warranty is longer on the Robust and its made in the USA, and a longer warranty is also on the Powermatics. I have turned on the PM 3520b numerous times - too many to count- and eleven different lathes to date on that model........ I like the 3520b, but hands down would take the G0800 over it any day of the week! Again PM and the Grizzly G0800, G0799 and G0835 are all made by Harvey Industries Machine Co.

    So, there you have the back story on the comparisons, and you can see the G0800 at Grizzly.com if you are so inclined. I post this by way of providing info for interested persons, and to answer your comment above. So many folks don't realize how fine a lathe Grizzly is now providing, and I would encourage others who might be interested to take a serious look for themselves. Only they know what they truly want in a lathe, and how a certain model will fit their needs.

    Good luck Mick, with your Revo repairs....I hope it goes well for you!
    Roger, that's a lot of Grizzly sales pitch for a guy with a Laguna issue, LOL.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by Richard Coers View Post
    Roger, that's a lot of Grizzly sales pitch for a guy with a Laguna issue, LOL.
    No sales pitch intended...knowing he has the Revo, but did not even know about the company or the lathe with some similar roots. Just the sharing of info.
    Remember, in a moments time, everything can change!

    Vision - not just seeing what is, but seeing what can be!




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