Workbench top

[Kyle Foster]

Hey everyone. I was just sitting back and starting the design on my future workbench and all of a sudden, I realized that I have no heat in my shop. If I was father south, this wouldn't be an issue but I am in almost Canada land and have hit the freezing temps until April. Does anyone have thoughts on doing a solid top without glue?

Kyle

[Gary Radice]

If what you mean is that it will be too cold for the next 6 months to properly glue up a top, then you could, assuming you start with roughly a bunch of 2x4s or similar hardwood:

drill holes and use all thread/threaded rod to pull the top boards together. Plane it flat. Or overlay with MDF or hardboard.

You could re-use the boards when it is warm enough for glue up. The holes and threaded rod would help align the top boards.

[Kyle Foster]

If what you mean is that it will be too cold for the next 6 months to properly glue up a top, then you could, assuming you start with roughly a bunch of 2x4s or similar hardwood:

drill holes and use all thread/threaded rod to pull the top boards together. Plane it flat. Or overlay with MDF or hardboard.

You could re-use the boards when it is warm enough for glue up. The holes and threaded rod would help align the top boards.

That was my thoughts but I wasn't sure if it would work and didnt want to get my mind stuck in a way of doing it that wouldn't work.

[Kory Cassel]

Hi Kyle, I've been laminating my bench together one layer at a time and if I had it to do over again, I might save up my pennies and buy one of the commercially available 4" maple tops. All the tutorials I have seen on laminating your own top have been light on clamping pressure for this kind of job. I've been using over a dozen 3/4" pipe clamps and it's still barely enough for the surface area.

[Kyle Foster]

Hi Kyle, I've been laminating my bench together one layer at a time and if I had it to do over again, I might save up my pennies and buy one of the commercially available 4" maple tops. All the tutorials I have seen on laminating your own top have been light on clamping pressure for this kind of job. I've been using over a dozen 3/4" pipe clamps and it's still barely enough for the surface area.

How thick are the pieces you're using? 12/4? A 3/4 pipe clamp can exert over 600lbs of force at the clamping point. When I was at the cabinet shop and we did a glue up of that size, we used a 3/4 pipe clamp every 3 inches or so. You literally couldnt get another clamp on the piece.

[Kory Cassel]

How thick are the pieces you're using? 12/4? A 3/4 pipe clamp can exert over 600lbs of force at the clamping point. When I was at the cabinet shop and we did a glue up of that size, we used a 3/4 pipe clamp every 3 inches or so. You literally couldnt get another clamp on the piece.

No my local hardwood supply is very limited, 3/4" stock. Lots of laminations. I'm using 2X4s as cauls. I worked out the math using a clamping pressure table in FWW/FHB Woodworking Wisdom and Know-how, and the pressure is definitely still light with fifteen 3/4" pipe clamps on the 4" wide 8' long hardwood glue joint. Distribution is not as much of a problem as the sheer psi recommended with these huge joints. I don't know how many clamps you have, but you'll need a lot (like a couple dozen) to reach the recommended clamping force. The commercial tops look way ​more appealing now than they did when I started let me tell you.

[Kyle Foster]

No my local hardwood supply is very limited, 3/4" stock. Lots of laminations. I'm using 2X4s as cauls. I worked out the math using a clamping pressure table in FWW/FHB Woodworking Wisdom and Know-how, and the pressure is definitely still light with fifteen 3/4" pipe clamps on the 4" wide 8' long hardwood glue joint. Distribution is not as much of a problem as the sheer psi recommended with these huge joints. I don't know how many clamps you have, but you'll need a lot (like a couple dozen) to reach the recommended clamping force. The commercial tops look way ​more appealing now than they did when I started let me tell you.

Ok. I have a new idea forming for how I can get this top going. I work as a structural steel detailer and have access to a pile of metal for cheap. What if I were to drill holes all the way through at 6" or maybe 12" o.c. and clamp a piece of 1/4" steel on both sides with all thread rod running through the holes. After the glue has dried, remove steel and all thread and boom, Instant dog holes in the edge. Not sure if you can visualize my Franken top or not but let me know what you think.

[Kory Cassel]

It sounds like it can be done that way. I've got an older workbench book from the 70s that shows the plans for Frank Klausz's bench and it has a piece of all thread reinforcing the shoulder vice that runs all the way through the top. What thickness materials will you be using?

While you might get the force you need from the all thread, the location of the clamping pressure may then pose a problem. Assuming the pressure is transmitted through a 45 degree cone shape from the source your outside top boards would have to be very thick for the pressure to reach the rim and overlap along the middle. Maybe you could shim the long edges of the steel plates concentrating the pressure there. Or you could use thick cauls to allow the 45 degree clamping force to reach out to the rim of your boards. I'm not sure which would be the better idea? A good solid joint around the outer rim of each lamination is more important than what's going on in the middle.

But then if it ever does come apart you can re-use your all thread holes to glue it back together again! Or you might consider countersinking the all thread into the sides of the top and leaving it there. You'd just have to be careful about placing dog holes, leg mortises, etc...

In that old 70s workbench book Ian Kirby talks about laminating a solid wood top. 'It's really wood engineering' he said. Seems like he was right.

[Kyle Foster]

It sounds like it can be done that way. I've got an older workbench book from the 70s that shows the plans for Frank Klausz's bench and it has a piece of all thread reinforcing the shoulder vice that runs all the way through the top. What thickness materials will you be using?

While you might get the force you need from the all thread, the location of the clamping pressure may then pose a problem. Assuming the pressure is transmitted through a 45 degree cone shape from the source your outside top boards would have to be very thick for the pressure to reach the rim and overlap along the middle. Maybe you could shim the long edges of the steel plates concentrating the pressure there. Or you could use thick cauls to allow the 45 degree clamping force to reach out to the rim of your boards. I'm not sure which would be the better idea? A good solid joint around the outer rim of each lamination is more important than what's going on in the middle.

But then if it ever does come apart you can re-use your all thread holes to glue it back together again! Or you might consider countersinking the all thread into the sides of the top and leaving it there. You'd just have to be careful about placing dog holes, leg mortises, etc...

In that old 70s workbench book Ian Kirby talks about laminating a solid wood top. 'It's really wood engineering' he said. Seems like he was right.

This is definitely something that will happen. I was thinking/ planning on doing it with construction grade SYP. If I get 2x12x16 and quarter it, that gives me 8 foot long by 6 inch wide. If I were to get 5 of them, that's a 30 inch top that is 5 1/2 deep.

1 concern of mine with doing a lamination like this is what about the wood movement. If I have it locked into a set width like this, wont the flatness of the top be affected? If the moisture can't leave through the horizontal grain, then it would increase the amount leaving through the tangential and vertical grain I would think.

For flatness I suppose i could have a couple 2x4s underneath lagged to the bottom of the top....

Kf

[Kory Cassel]

Splitting 2x12s is a good idea, you can probably find clearer boards in that size. If you position the split edges showing as the up side of the top, it will be a nice stripey quartersawn looking bench top. I'm not sure what you mean by 'flatness' with using the 2x4s? If you mean to support the top or keep it from moving, I wouldn't worry about it. 5" of syp will be plenty strong on its own. After gluing the top you will have to flatten it, and then again once the whole bench is together and standing. But kiln dried construction grade lumber shouldn't cause you too much grief. The softwood top could easily end up being more stable than a hard maple top and far easier to plane flat.

[Kyle Foster]

Splitting 2x12s is a good idea, you can probably find clearer boards in that size. If you position the split edges showing as the up side of the top, it will be a nice stripey quartersawn looking bench top. I'm not sure what you mean by 'flatness' with using the 2x4s? If you mean to support the top or keep it from moving, I wouldn't worry about it. 5" of syp will be plenty strong on its own. After gluing the top you will have to flatten it, and then again once the whole bench is together and standing. But kiln dried construction grade lumber shouldn't cause you too much grief. The softwood top could easily end up being more stable than a hard maple top and far easier to plane flat.

I have a shop area that isnt heated and I wont have natural heat for probably 5 more months so I was intending this build to be a glue less build. So by flatness, I meant how flat it will remain. Another thought is maybe they make a cold temp glue?
I can bring a space heater out for a short time but long enough for a glue up isnt possible or feasible.

[Mike DeHart]

Canton? Might as well call that central ny as i grew up a little north of you in Massena. You might want to check out stumpy nubs roubo bench build. he uses rods in it. if you have a biscuit joiner it might help keep it flat until it warms up in the north country. You might want to consider mixing in some narrower boards so you can use hold fasts.
stay warm!

[Kyle Foster]

Canton? Might as well call that central ny as i grew up a little north of you in Massena. You might want to check out stumpy nubs roubo bench build. he uses rods in it. if you have a biscuit joiner it might help keep it flat until it warms up in the north country. You might want to consider mixing in some narrower boards so you can use hold fasts.
stay warm!

Finally someone who understands my plight! 😁 I am a little confused about mixing in narrower boards for hold facts? Dont they just go into a hole? Please educate me if I am missing something here.

[steven c newman]

Perhaps I should repost a thread about the bench I built....took.....one Sunday Afternoon....and is still in use in my shop...

Dumpster dived for lumber....$7 for a box of long screws from Blue BORG....

If there is any interest....

[Kory Cassel]

I have a shop area that isnt heated and I wont have natural heat for probably 5 more months so I was intending this build to be a glue less build. So by flatness, I meant how flat it will remain. Another thought is maybe they make a cold temp glue?
I can bring a space heater out for a short time but long enough for a glue up isnt possible or feasible.

Sorry Kyle, got mixed up by the weather outside in Tx right now. 77 degrees this morning! Ok, new plan of attack, Mike's suggestion about biscuits would work or maybe just long deck screws. I think leaving the steel plate on the sides with all thread sticking out is going to be chewing on your clothes while you're trying to work at the bench over the winter. How about this: countersink the all thread with washers for the winter, use deck screws to hold the boards in alignment, when it comes time to glue up next year sacrifice the outside countersunk boards from the width of your top so you can re-use the all thread for clamping and not need longer pieces. Chris Schwarz argues intelligently for a bench top 24" wide or narrower. You only really work on the front 10" or so 90% of the time and benches get more cumbersome to walk around on an exponential scale with every inch of width. When it does come time to glue up, you could do 1/3 of the boards at a time using a few of the rest as cauls on the sides to distribute the pressure to the boards being laminated in the center and then the last glue up would be 3, 8"+ wide sections which would need no caul other than your 1/4" steel plates. Screwing battens underneath won't hurt anything. Also laying some hardboard or Masonite on the top with a few strips of contact cement until you glue up next year might be a good idea. Give you a smooth unbroken surface to work on at least.